{"id":"an4.193","title":"With Bhaddiya","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"an4.193","title":"With Bhaddiya","units":[{"id":"an4.193:0","sourceIds":["an4.193:0.1","an4.193:0.2","an4.193:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Aṅguttara Nikāya 4.193\n20. Mahāvagga\nBhaddiyasutta","en":"Numbered Discourses 4.193\n20. The Great Chapter\nWith Bhaddiya"}},{"id":"an4.193:1","sourceIds":["an4.193:1.1","an4.193:1.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā vesāliyaṁ viharati mahāvane kūṭāgārasālāyaṁ.\nAtha kho bhaddiyo licchavi yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho bhaddiyo licchavi bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:","en":"At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.\nThen Bhaddiya the Licchavi went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:"}},{"id":"an4.193:2","sourceIds":["an4.193:2.1","an4.193:2.2","an4.193:2.3","an4.193:2.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Sutaṁ metaṁ, bhante:\n‘māyāvī samaṇo gotamo āvaṭṭaniṁ māyaṁ jānāti yāya aññatitthiyānaṁ sāvake āvaṭṭetī’ti.\nYe te, bhante, evamāhaṁsu:\n‘māyāvī samaṇo gotamo āvaṭṭaniṁ māyaṁ jānāti yāya aññatitthiyānaṁ sāvake āvaṭṭetī’ti, kacci te, bhante, bhagavato vuttavādino, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkhanti, dhammassa ca anudhammaṁ byākaronti, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgacchati, anabbhakkhātukāmā hi mayaṁ, bhante, bhagavantan”ti?","en":"“Sir, I have heard this:\n‘The ascetic Gotama is deceitful. He knows a conversion trick, and uses it to convert the disciples of those of other religions.’\nI trust those who say this repeat what the Buddha has said, and do not misrepresent him with an untruth? Is their explanation in line with the teaching? Are there any legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”"}},{"id":"an4.193:3","sourceIds":["an4.193:3.1","an4.193:3.2","an4.193:3.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Etha tumhe, bhaddiya, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.\nYadā tumhe, bhaddiya, attanāva jāneyyātha:\n‘ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, bhaddiya, pajaheyyātha.","en":"“Please, Bhaddiya, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’\nBut when you know for yourselves:\n‘These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering’, then you should give them up."}},{"id":"an4.193:4","sourceIds":["an4.193:4.1","an4.193:4.2","an4.193:4.3","an4.193:4.4","an4.193:4.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, bhaddiya,\nlobho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?\n“Ahitāya, bhante”.\n“Luddho panāyaṁ, bhaddiya, purisapuggalo lobhena abhibhūto pariyādinnacitto pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti yaṁsa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bhante”.","en":"What do you think, Bhaddiya?\nDoes greed come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”\n“Harm, sir.”\n“A greedy individual, overcome by greed, kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”\n“Yes, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:5","sourceIds":["an4.193:5.1","an4.193:5.2","an4.193:5.3","an4.193:5.4","an4.193:5.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, bhaddiya,\ndoso purisassa …pe… moho purisassa …pe… sārambho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?\n“Ahitāya, bhante”.\n“Sāraddho panāyaṁ, bhaddiya, purisapuggalo sārambhena abhibhūto pariyādinnacitto pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti yaṁsa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bhante”.","en":"“What do you think, Bhaddiya?\nDoes hate … or delusion … or aggression come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”\n“Harm, sir.”\n“An aggressive individual kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”\n“Yes, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:6","sourceIds":["an4.193:6.1","an4.193:6.2","an4.193:6.3","an4.193:6.4","an4.193:6.5","an4.193:6.6","an4.193:6.7","an4.193:6.8","an4.193:6.9","an4.193:6.10"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, bhaddiya, ime dhammā kusalā vā akusalā vā”ti?\n“Akusalā, bhante”.\n“Sāvajjā vā anavajjā vā”ti?\n“Sāvajjā, bhante”.\n“Viññugarahitā vā viññuppasatthā vā”ti?\n“Viññugarahitā, bhante”.\n“Samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattanti, no vā?\nKathaṁ vā ettha hotī”ti?\n“Samattā, bhante, samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattanti.\nEvaṁ no ettha hotī”ti.","en":"“What do you think, Bhaddiya, are these things skillful or unskillful?”\n“Unskillful, sir.”\n“Blameworthy or blameless?”\n“Blameworthy, sir.”\n“Criticized or praised by sensible people?”\n“Criticized by sensible people, sir.”\n“When you undertake them, do they lead to harm and suffering, or not?\nOr how do you see this?”\n“When you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering.\nThat’s how we see it.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:7","sourceIds":["an4.193:7.1","an4.193:7.2","an4.193:7.3","an4.193:7.4","an4.193:7.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kho, bhaddiya, yaṁ taṁ te avocumhā—\netha tumhe, bhaddiya, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.\nYadā tumhe, bhaddiya, attanāva jāneyyātha:\n‘ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantīti, atha tumhe, bhaddiya, pajaheyyāthā’ti,\niti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.","en":"“So, Bhaddiya, when we said:\n‘Please, Bhaddiya, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.”\nBut when you know for yourselves:\n“These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering”, then you should give them up.’\nThat’s what I said, and this is why I said it."}},{"id":"an4.193:8","sourceIds":["an4.193:8.1","an4.193:8.2","an4.193:8.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Etha tumhe, bhaddiya, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.\nYadā tumhe, bhaddiya, attanāva jāneyyātha:\n‘ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, bhaddiya, upasampajja vihareyyāthāti.","en":"Please, Bhaddiya, don’t rely on oral transmission …\nBut when you know for yourselves:\n‘These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness’, then you should acquire them and keep them."}},{"id":"an4.193:9","sourceIds":["an4.193:9.1","an4.193:9.2","an4.193:9.3","an4.193:9.4","an4.193:9.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, bhaddiya,\nalobho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?\n“Hitāya, bhante”.\n“Aluddho panāyaṁ, bhaddiya, purisapuggalo lobhena anabhibhūto apariyādinnacitto neva pāṇaṁ hanati, na adinnaṁ ādiyati, na paradāraṁ gacchati, na musā bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya na samādapeti yaṁsa hoti dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bhante”.","en":"What do you think, Bhaddiya?\nDoes contentment … love … understanding … benevolence come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”"}},{"id":"an4.193:10","sourceIds":["an4.193:10.1","an4.193:10.2","an4.193:10.3","an4.193:10.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, bhaddiya, adoso purisassa …pe… amoho purisassa …pe… asārambho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?\n“Hitāya, bhante”.\n“Asāraddho panāyaṁ, bhaddiya, purisapuggalo sārambhena anabhibhūto apariyādinnacitto neva pāṇaṁ hanati, na adinnaṁ ādiyati, na paradāraṁ gacchati, na musā bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya na samādapeti yaṁsa hoti dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bhante”.","en":"“Welfare, sir.”\n“An individual who is benevolent—not overcome by aggression—doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, or encourage others to do the same. Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?”\n“Yes, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:11","sourceIds":["an4.193:11.1","an4.193:11.2","an4.193:11.3","an4.193:11.4","an4.193:11.5","an4.193:11.6","an4.193:11.7","an4.193:11.8","an4.193:11.9","an4.193:11.10"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, bhaddiya, ime dhammā kusalā vā akusalā vā”ti?\n“Kusalā, bhante”.\n“Sāvajjā vā anavajjā vā”ti?\n“Anavajjā, bhante”.\n“Viññugarahitā vā viññuppasatthā vā”ti?\n“Viññuppasatthā, bhante”.\n“Samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattanti no vā?\nKathaṁ vā ettha hotī”ti?\n“Samattā, bhante, samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattanti.\nEvaṁ no ettha hotī”ti.","en":"“What do you think, Bhaddiya, are these things skillful or unskillful?”\n“Skillful, sir.”\n“Blameworthy or blameless?”\n“Blameless, sir.”\n“Criticized or praised by sensible people?”\n“Praised by sensible people, sir.”\n“When you undertake them, do they lead to welfare and happiness, or not?\nOr how do you see this?”\n“When you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness.\nThat’s how we see it.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:12","sourceIds":["an4.193:12.1","an4.193:12.2","an4.193:12.3","an4.193:12.4","an4.193:12.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kho, bhaddiya, yaṁ taṁ te avocumhā—\netha tumhe, bhaddiya, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.\nYadā tumhe, bhaddiya, attanāva jāneyyātha:\n‘ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantīti, atha tumhe, bhaddiya, upasampajja vihareyyāthā’ti,\niti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.","en":"“So, Bhaddiya, when we said:\n‘Please, Bhaddiya, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.”\nBut when you know for yourselves:\n“These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness”, then you should acquire them and keep them.’\nThat’s what I said, and this is why I said it."}},{"id":"an4.193:13","sourceIds":["an4.193:13.1","an4.193:13.2","an4.193:13.3","an4.193:13.4","an4.193:13.5","an4.193:13.6","an4.193:13.7","an4.193:13.8","an4.193:13.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Ye kho te, bhaddiya, loke santo sappurisā te sāvakaṁ evaṁ samādapenti:\n‘ehi tvaṁ, ambho purisa, lobhaṁ vineyya viharāhi.\nLobhaṁ vineyya viharanto na lobhajaṁ kammaṁ karissasi kāyena vācāya manasā.\nDosaṁ vineyya viharāhi.\nDosaṁ vineyya viharanto na dosajaṁ kammaṁ karissasi kāyena vācāya manasā.\nMohaṁ vineyya viharāhi.\nMohaṁ vineyya viharanto na mohajaṁ kammaṁ karissasi kāyena vācāya manasā.\nSārambhaṁ vineyya viharāhi.\nSārambhaṁ vineyya viharanto na sārambhajaṁ kammaṁ karissasi kāyena vācāya manasā’”ti.","en":"The good and true persons in the world encourage their disciples:\n‘Please, my man, live rid of greed.\nThen you won’t act out of greed by way of body, speech, or mind.\nLive rid of hate … delusion … aggression.\nThen you won’t act out of hate … delusion … aggression by way of body, speech, or mind.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:14","sourceIds":["an4.193:14.1","an4.193:14.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, bhaddiyo licchavi bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:\n“abhikkantaṁ, bhante …pe… upāsakaṁ maṁ, bhante, bhagavā dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.","en":"When he said this, Bhaddiya the Licchavi said to the Buddha,\n“Excellent, sir! … From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:15","sourceIds":["an4.193:15.1","an4.193:15.2","an4.193:15.3","an4.193:15.4","an4.193:15.5","an4.193:15.6","an4.193:15.7","an4.193:15.8","an4.193:15.9","an4.193:15.10","an4.193:15.11"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Api nu tāhaṁ, bhaddiya, evaṁ avacaṁ:\n‘ehi me tvaṁ, bhaddiya, sāvako hohi;\nahaṁ satthā bhavissāmī’”ti?\n“No hetaṁ, bhante”.\n“Evaṁvādiṁ kho maṁ, bhaddiya, evamakkhāyiṁ eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā asatā tucchā musā abhūtena abbhācikkhanti:\n‘māyāvī samaṇo gotamo āvaṭṭaniṁ māyaṁ jānāti yāya aññatitthiyānaṁ sāvake āvaṭṭetī’”ti.\n“Bhaddikā, bhante, āvaṭṭanī māyā.\nKalyāṇī, bhante, āvaṭṭanī māyā.\nPiyā me, bhante, ñātisālohitā imāya āvaṭṭaniyā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ, piyānampi me assa ñātisālohitānaṁ dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya.\nSabbe cepi, bhante, khattiyā imāya āvaṭṭaniyā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ, sabbesampissa khattiyānaṁ dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya.\nSabbe cepi, bhante, brāhmaṇā … vessā … suddā imāya āvaṭṭaniyā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ, sabbesampissa suddānaṁ dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.","en":"“Well, Bhaddiya, did I say to you:\n‘Please, Bhaddiya, be my disciple,\nand I will be your teacher’?”\n“No, sir.”\n“Though I state and assert this, certain ascetics and brahmins misrepresent me with the incorrect, hollow, false, untruthful claim:\n‘The ascetic Gotama is deceitful. He knows a conversion trick, and uses it to convert the disciples of those of other religions.’”\n“Sir, this conversion trick is excellent.\nThis conversion trick is lovely!\nIf my loved ones—relatives and kin—were to be converted by this, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness.\nIf all the aristocrats, brahmins, peasants, and menials were to be converted by this, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness.”"}},{"id":"an4.193:16","sourceIds":["an4.193:16.1","an4.193:16.2","an4.193:16.3","an4.193:16.4","an4.193:16.5","an4.193:16.6","an4.193:16.7"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Evametaṁ, bhaddiya, evametaṁ, bhaddiya.\nSabbe cepi, bhaddiya, khattiyā imāya āvaṭṭaniyā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ akusaladhammappahānāya kusaladhammūpasampadāya, sabbesampissa khattiyānaṁ dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya.\nSabbe cepi, bhaddiya, brāhmaṇā … vessā … suddā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ akusaladhammappahānāya kusaladhammūpasampadāya, sabbesampissa suddānaṁ dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya.\nSadevako cepi, bhaddiya, loko samārako sabrahmako sassamaṇabrāhmaṇī pajā sadevamanussā imāya āvaṭṭaniyā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ akusaladhammappahānāya kusaladhammūpasampadāya, sadevakassapissa lokassa samārakassa sabrahmakassa sassamaṇabrāhmaṇiyā pajāya sadevamanussāya dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya.\nIme cepi, bhaddiya, mahāsālā imāya āvaṭṭaniyā āvaṭṭeyyuṁ akusaladhammappahānāya kusaladhammūpasampadāya, imesampissa mahāsālānaṁ dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya (…).\nKo pana vādo manussabhūtassā”ti.\nTatiyaṁ.","en":"“That’s so true, Bhaddiya! That’s so true, Bhaddiya!\nIf all the aristocrats, brahmins, peasants, and menials were to be converted by this, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness.\nIf the whole world—with its gods, Māras, and divinities, this population with its ascetics and brahmins, gods and humans—were to be converted by this, for giving up unskillful qualities and embracing skillful qualities, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness.\nIf these great sal trees were to be converted by this, for giving up unskillful qualities and embracing skillful qualities, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness—if they were sentient.\nHow much more then a human being!”"}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/an4.193/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}