{"id":"an4.195","title":"With Vappa","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"an4.195","title":"With Vappa","units":[{"id":"an4.195:0","sourceIds":["an4.195:0.1","an4.195:0.2","an4.195:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Aṅguttara Nikāya 4.195\n20. Mahāvagga\nVappasutta","en":"Numbered Discourses 4.195\n20. The Great Chapter\nWith Vappa"}},{"id":"an4.195:1","sourceIds":["an4.195:1.1","an4.195:1.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sakkesu viharati kapilavatthusmiṁ nigrodhārāme.\nAtha kho vappo sakko nigaṇṭhasāvako yenāyasmā mahāmoggallāno tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho vappaṁ sakkaṁ nigaṇṭhasāvakaṁ āyasmā mahāmoggallāno etadavoca:","en":"At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Sakyans, near Kapilavatthu in the Banyan Tree Monastery.\nThen Vappa of the Sakyans, a disciple of the Jains, went up to Venerable Mahāmoggallāna, bowed, and sat down to one side. Mahāmoggallāna said to him:"}},{"id":"an4.195:2","sourceIds":["an4.195:2.1","an4.195:2.2","an4.195:2.3","an4.195:2.4","an4.195:2.5","an4.195:2.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Idhassa, vappa, kāyena saṁvuto vācāya saṁvuto manasā saṁvuto avijjāvirāgā vijjuppādā.\nPassasi no tvaṁ, vappa, taṁ ṭhānaṁ yatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan”ti?\n“Passāmahaṁ, bhante, taṁ ṭhānaṁ.\nIdhassa, bhante, pubbe pāpakammaṁ kataṁ avipakkavipākaṁ.\nTatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan”ti.\nAyañceva kho pana āyasmato mahāmoggallānassa vappena sakkena nigaṇṭhasāvakena saddhiṁ antarākathā vippakatā hoti.","en":"“Vappa, take an individual who, due to the fading away of ignorance and the arising of knowledge, is restrained in body, speech, and mind.\nDo you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the next life?”\n“Sir, I do see such a case.\nTake someone who did bad deeds in a past life. But the result of that has not yet ripened.\nFor this reason defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the next life.”\nBut this conversation between Mahāmoggallāna and Vappa was left unfinished."}},{"id":"an4.195:3","sourceIds":["an4.195:3.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho bhagavā sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yena upaṭṭhānasālā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā paññatte āsane nisīdi. Nisajja kho bhagavā āyasmantaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ etadavoca:","en":"Then in the late afternoon, the Buddha came out of retreat and went to the assembly hall. He sat down on the seat spread out, and said to Mahāmoggallāna,"}},{"id":"an4.195:4","sourceIds":["an4.195:4.1","an4.195:4.2","an4.195:4.3","an4.195:4.4","an4.195:4.5","an4.195:4.6","an4.195:4.7","an4.195:4.8","an4.195:4.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kāya nuttha, moggallāna, etarahi kathāya sannisinnā; kā ca pana vo antarākathā vippakatā”ti?\n“Idhāhaṁ, bhante, vappaṁ sakkaṁ nigaṇṭhasāvakaṁ etadavocaṁ:\n‘idhassa, vappa, kāyena saṁvuto vācāya saṁvuto manasā saṁvuto avijjāvirāgā vijjuppādā.\nPassasi no tvaṁ, vappa, taṁ ṭhānaṁ yatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan’ti?\nEvaṁ vutte, bhante, vappo sakko nigaṇṭhasāvako maṁ etadavoca:\n‘passāmahaṁ, bhante, taṁ ṭhānaṁ.\nIdhassa, bhante, pubbe pāpakammaṁ kataṁ avipakkavipākaṁ.\nTatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan’ti.\nAyaṁ kho no, bhante, vappena sakkena nigaṇṭhasāvakena saddhiṁ antarākathā vippakatā; atha bhagavā anuppatto”ti.","en":"“Moggallāna, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?”\nMoggallāna repeated the entire conversation to the Buddha, and concluded:\n“This was my conversation with Vappa that was unfinished when the Buddha arrived.”"}},{"id":"an4.195:5","sourceIds":["an4.195:5.1","an4.195:5.2","an4.195:5.3","an4.195:5.4","an4.195:5.5","an4.195:5.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho bhagavā vappaṁ sakkaṁ nigaṇṭhasāvakaṁ etadavoca:\n“sace me tvaṁ, vappa, anuññeyyañceva anujāneyyāsi, paṭikkositabbañca paṭikkoseyyāsi, yassa ca me bhāsitassa atthaṁ na jāneyyāsi mamevettha uttari paṭipuccheyyāsi:\n‘idaṁ, bhante, kathaṁ, imassa ko attho’ti, siyā no ettha kathāsallāpo”ti.\n“Anuññeyyañcevāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavato anujānissāmi, paṭikkositabbañca paṭikkosissāmi, yassa cāhaṁ bhagavato bhāsitassa atthaṁ na jānissāmi bhagavantaṁyevettha uttari paṭipucchissāmi:\n‘idaṁ, bhante, kathaṁ, imassa ko attho’ti?\nHotu no ettha kathāsallāpo”ti.","en":"Then the Buddha said to Vappa,\n“Vappa, we can discuss this. But only if you grant what should be granted, and reject what should be rejected. And if you ask me the meaning of anything you don’t understand, saying:\n‘Sir, why is this? What’s the meaning of that?’”\n“Sir, let us discuss this. I will do as you say.”"}},{"id":"an4.195:6","sourceIds":["an4.195:6.1","an4.195:6.2","an4.195:6.3","an4.195:6.4","an4.195:6.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vappa,\nye kāyasamārambhapaccayā uppajjanti āsavā vighātapariḷāhā, kāyasamārambhā paṭiviratassa evaṁsa te āsavā vighātapariḷāhā na honti.\nSo navañca kammaṁ na karoti, purāṇañca kammaṁ phussa phussa byantīkaroti, sandiṭṭhikā nijjarā akālikā ehipassikā opaneyyikā paccattaṁ veditabbā viññūhi.\nPassasi no tvaṁ, vappa, taṁ ṭhānaṁ yatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan”ti?\n“No hetaṁ, bhante”.","en":"“What do you think, Vappa?\nThere are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of instigating bodily activity. These don’t occur in someone who refrains from such bodily activity.\nThey don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little. This wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves.\nDo you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the next life?”\n“No, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.195:7","sourceIds":["an4.195:7.1","an4.195:7.2","an4.195:7.3","an4.195:7.4","an4.195:7.5","an4.195:7.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vappa,\nye vacīsamārambhapaccayā uppajjanti āsavā vighātapariḷāhā, vacīsamārambhā paṭiviratassa evaṁsa te āsavā vighātapariḷāhā na honti.\nSo navañca kammaṁ na karoti, purāṇañca kammaṁ phussa phussa byantīkaroti.\nSandiṭṭhikā nijjarā akālikā ehipassikā opaneyyikā paccattaṁ veditabbā viññūhi.\nPassasi no tvaṁ, vappa, taṁ ṭhānaṁ yatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan”ti?\n“No hetaṁ, bhante”.","en":"“What do you think, Vappa?\nThere are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of instigating verbal activity. These don’t occur in someone who refrains from such verbal activity.\nThey don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little.\nThis wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves.\nDo you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the next life?”\n“No, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.195:8","sourceIds":["an4.195:8.1","an4.195:8.2","an4.195:8.3","an4.195:8.4","an4.195:8.5","an4.195:8.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vappa,\nye manosamārambhapaccayā uppajjanti āsavā vighātapariḷāhā, manosamārambhā paṭiviratassa evaṁsa te āsavā vighātapariḷāhā na honti.\nSo navañca kammaṁ na karoti, purāṇañca kammaṁ phussa phussa byantīkaroti.\nSandiṭṭhikā nijjarā akālikā ehipassikā opaneyyikā paccattaṁ veditabbā viññūhi.\nPassasi no tvaṁ, vappa, taṁ ṭhānaṁ yatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan”ti?\n“No hetaṁ, bhante”.","en":"“What do you think, Vappa?\nThere are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of instigating mental activity. These don’t occur in someone who refrains from such mental activity.\nThey don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little.\nThis wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves.\nDo you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the next life?”\n“No, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.195:9","sourceIds":["an4.195:9.1","an4.195:9.2","an4.195:9.3","an4.195:9.4","an4.195:9.5","an4.195:9.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vappa,\nye avijjāpaccayā uppajjanti āsavā vighātapariḷāhā, avijjāvirāgā vijjuppādā evaṁsa te āsavā vighātapariḷāhā na honti.\nSo navañca kammaṁ na karoti, purāṇañca kammaṁ phussa phussa byantīkaroti.\nSandiṭṭhikā nijjarā akālikā ehipassikā opaneyyikā paccattaṁ veditabbā viññūhi.\nPassasi no tvaṁ, vappa, taṁ ṭhānaṁ yatonidānaṁ purisaṁ dukkhavedaniyā āsavā assaveyyuṁ abhisamparāyan”ti?\n“No hetaṁ, bhante”.","en":"“What do you think, Vappa?\nThere are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of ignorance. These don’t occur when ignorance fades away and knowledge arises.\nThey don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little.\nThis wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves.\nDo you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the next life?”\n“No, sir.”"}},{"id":"an4.195:10","sourceIds":["an4.195:10.1","an4.195:10.2","an4.195:10.3","an4.195:10.4","an4.195:10.5","an4.195:10.6","an4.195:10.7","an4.195:10.8","an4.195:10.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Evaṁ sammā vimuttacittassa kho, vappa, bhikkhuno cha satatavihārā adhigatā honti.\nSo cakkhunā rūpaṁ disvā neva sumano hoti na dummano; upekkhako viharati sato sampajāno.\nSotena saddaṁ sutvā …pe…\nghānena gandhaṁ ghāyitvā …pe…\njivhāya rasaṁ sāyitvā …pe…\nkāyena phoṭṭhabbaṁ phusitvā …pe…\nmanasā dhammaṁ viññāya neva sumano hoti na dummano; upekkhako viharati sato sampajāno.\nSo kāyapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyamāno ‘kāyapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyāmī’ti pajānāti; jīvitapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyamāno ‘jīvitapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyāmī’ti pajānāti;\n‘kāyassa bhedā uddhaṁ jīvitapariyādānā idheva sabbavedayitāni anabhinanditāni sītī bhavissantī’ti pajānāti.","en":"“A mendicant whose mind is rightly freed like this has achieved six consistent responses.\nSeeing a sight with their eyes, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware.\nHearing a sound with their ears …\nSmelling an odor with their nose …\nTasting a flavor with their tongue …\nEncountering a touch with their body …\nKnowing an idea with their mind, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware.\nFeeling the end of the body draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of the body draw close.’ Feeling the end of life draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of life draw close.’\nThey understand: ‘When my body breaks up and my life has come to an end, everything that’s felt, being no longer relished, will become cool right here.’"}},{"id":"an4.195:11","sourceIds":["an4.195:11.1","an4.195:11.2","an4.195:11.3","an4.195:11.4","an4.195:11.5","an4.195:11.6","an4.195:11.7","an4.195:11.8","an4.195:11.9","an4.195:11.10","an4.195:11.11","an4.195:11.12","an4.195:11.13"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Seyyathāpi, vappa, thūṇaṁ paṭicca chāyā paññāyati.\nAtha puriso āgaccheyya kuddālapiṭakaṁ ādāya.\nSo taṁ thūṇaṁ mūle chindeyya;\nmūle chinditvā palikhaṇeyya;\npalikhaṇitvā mūlāni uddhareyya, antamaso usīranāḷimattānipi.\nSo taṁ thūṇaṁ khaṇḍākhaṇḍikaṁ chindeyya.\nKhaṇḍākhaṇḍikaṁ chetvā phāleyya.\nPhāletvā sakalikaṁ sakalikaṁ kareyya.\nSakalikaṁ sakalikaṁ katvā vātātape visoseyya.\nVātātape visosetvā agginā ḍaheyya.\nAgginā ḍahetvā masiṁ kareyya.\nMasiṁ karitvā mahāvāte vā ophuṇeyya nadiyā vā sīghasotāya pavāheyya.\nEvaṁ hissa, vappa, yā thūṇaṁ paṭicca chāyā sā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā.","en":"Suppose there was a shadow cast by a post.\nThen along comes a person with a spade and basket.\nThey cut down the post at its base,\ndig it up,\nand pull it out by its roots, right down to the fibers and stems.\nThen they split it apart,\ncut up the parts,\nand chop them into splinters.\nNext they dry the splinters in the wind and sun,\nburn them with fire,\nand reduce them to ashes.\nThen they whisk away the ashes in a strong wind, or glide them down a swift stream.\nAnd so the shadow cast by the post is cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future."}},{"id":"an4.195:12","sourceIds":["an4.195:12.1","an4.195:12.2","an4.195:12.3","an4.195:12.4","an4.195:12.5","an4.195:12.6","an4.195:12.7","an4.195:12.8","an4.195:12.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evamevaṁ kho, vappa, evaṁ sammā vimuttacittassa bhikkhuno cha satatavihārā adhigatā honti.\nSo cakkhunā rūpaṁ disvā neva sumano hoti na dummano; upekkhako viharati sato sampajāno.\nSotena saddaṁ sutvā …pe…\nghānena gandhaṁ ghāyitvā …pe…\njivhāya rasaṁ sāyitvā …pe…\nkāyena phoṭṭhabbaṁ phusitvā …pe…\nmanasā dhammaṁ viññāya neva sumano hoti na dummano; upekkhako viharati sato sampajāno.\nSo kāyapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyamāno ‘kāyapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyāmī’ti pajānāti; jīvitapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyamāno ‘jīvitapariyantikaṁ vedanaṁ vediyāmī’ti pajānāti;\n‘kāyassa bhedā uddhaṁ jīvitapariyādānā idheva sabbavedayitāni anabhinanditāni sītī bhavissantī’ti pajānāti”.","en":"In the same way, a mendicant whose mind is rightly freed like this has achieved six consistent responses.\nSeeing a sight with their eyes, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware.\nHearing a sound with their ears …\nSmelling an odor with their nose …\nTasting a flavor with their tongue …\nEncountering a touch with their body …\nKnowing an idea with their mind, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware.\nFeeling the end of the body draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of the body draw close.’ Feeling the end of life draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of life draw close.’\nThey understand: ‘When my body breaks up and my life has come to an end, everything that’s felt, being no longer relished, will become cool right here.’”"}},{"id":"an4.195:13","sourceIds":["an4.195:13.1","an4.195:13.2","an4.195:13.3","an4.195:13.4","an4.195:13.5","an4.195:13.6","an4.195:13.7","an4.195:13.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, vappo sakko nigaṇṭhasāvako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:\n“seyyathāpi, bhante, puriso udayatthiko assapaṇiyaṁ poseyya.\nSo udayañceva nādhigaccheyya, uttariñca kilamathassa vighātassa bhāgī assa.\nEvamevaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, udayatthiko bāle nigaṇṭhe payirupāsiṁ.\nSvāhaṁ udayañceva nādhigacchiṁ, uttariñca kilamathassa vighātassa bhāgī ahosiṁ.\nEsāhaṁ, bhante, ajjatagge yo me bālesu nigaṇṭhesu pasādo taṁ mahāvāte vā ophuṇāmi nadiyā vā sīghasotāya pavāhemi.\nAbhikkantaṁ, bhante …pe… upāsakaṁ maṁ, bhante, bhagavā dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.\nPañcamaṁ.","en":"When he said this, Vappa the Sakyan, the disciple of the Jains, said to the Buddha:\n“Sir, suppose there was a man who raised commercial horses for profit.\nBut he never made any profit, and instead just got weary and frustrated.\nIn the same way, I paid homage to those Jain fools for profit.\nBut I never made any profit, and instead just got weary and frustrated.\nFrom this day forth, any confidence I had in those Jain fools I whisk away as in a strong wind, or glide away as down a swift stream.\nExcellent, sir! … From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”"}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/an4.195/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}