{"id":"an9.38","title":"Brahmin Cosmologists","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"an9.38","title":"Brahmin Cosmologists","units":[{"id":"an9.38:0","sourceIds":["an9.38:0.1","an9.38:0.2","an9.38:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Aṅguttara Nikāya 9.38\n4. Mahāvagga\nLokāyatikasutta","en":"Numbered Discourses 9.38\n4. The Great Chapter\nBrahmin Cosmologists"}},{"id":"an9.38:1","sourceIds":["an9.38:1.1","an9.38:1.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho dve lokāyatikā brāhmaṇā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu.\nSammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te brāhmaṇā bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ:","en":"Then two brahmin cosmologists went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him.\nWhen the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:"}},{"id":"an9.38:2","sourceIds":["an9.38:2.1","an9.38:2.2","an9.38:2.3","an9.38:2.4","an9.38:2.5","an9.38:2.6","an9.38:2.7","an9.38:2.8","an9.38:2.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Pūraṇo, bho gotama, kassapo sabbaññū sabbadassāvī aparisesaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paṭijānāti:\n‘carato ca me tiṭṭhato ca suttassa ca jāgarassa ca satataṁ samitaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paccupaṭṭhitan’ti.\nSo evamāha:\n‘ahaṁ anantena ñāṇena anantaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharāmī’ti.\nAyampi, bho gotama, nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto sabbaññū sabbadassāvī aparisesaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paṭijānāti:\n‘carato ca me tiṭṭhato ca suttassa ca jāgarassa ca satataṁ samitaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paccupaṭṭhitan’ti.\nSo evamāha:\n‘ahaṁ anantena ñāṇena anantaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharāmī’ti.\nImesaṁ, bho gotama, ubhinnaṁ ñāṇavādānaṁ ubhinnaṁ aññamaññaṁ vipaccanīkavādānaṁ ko saccaṁ āha ko musā”ti?","en":"“Worthy Gotama, Pūraṇa Kassapa claims to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus:\n‘Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.’\nHe says:\n‘With infinite knowledge I know and see that the cosmos is infinite.’\nAnd the Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan also claims to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus:\n‘Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.’\nHe says:\n‘With infinite knowledge I know and see that the cosmos is finite.’\nThese two claim to speak from knowledge, but they directly contradict each other. Which one of them speaks the truth, and which falsehood?”"}},{"id":"an9.38:3","sourceIds":["an9.38:3.1","an9.38:3.2","an9.38:3.3","an9.38:3.4","an9.38:3.5","an9.38:3.6","an9.38:3.7"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Alaṁ, brāhmaṇā.\nTiṭṭhatetaṁ:\n‘imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ ñāṇavādānaṁ ubhinnaṁ aññamaññaṁ vipaccanīkavādānaṁ ko saccaṁ āha ko musā’ti.\nDhammaṁ vo, brāhmaṇā, desessāmi,\ntaṁ suṇātha, sādhukaṁ manasi karotha, bhāsissāmī”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bho”ti kho te brāhmaṇā bhagavato paccassosuṁ.\nBhagavā etadavoca:","en":"“Enough, brahmins, let that be.\nI will teach you the Dhamma.\nListen and apply your mind well, I will speak.”\n“Yes, worthy sir,” those brahmins replied.\nThe Buddha said this:"}},{"id":"an9.38:4","sourceIds":["an9.38:4.1","an9.38:4.2","an9.38:4.3","an9.38:4.4","an9.38:4.5","an9.38:4.6","an9.38:4.7","an9.38:4.8","an9.38:4.9","an9.38:4.10","an9.38:4.11","an9.38:4.12","an9.38:4.13","an9.38:4.14"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇā, cattāro purisā catuddisā ṭhitā paramena javena ca samannāgatā paramena ca padavītihārena.\nTe evarūpena javena samannāgatā assu, seyyathāpi nāma daḷhadhammā dhanuggaho sikkhito katahattho katūpāsano lahukena asanena appakasirena tiriyaṁ tālacchāyaṁ atipāteyya;\nevarūpena ca padavītihārena, seyyathāpi nāma puratthimā samuddā pacchimo samuddo\natha puratthimāya disāya ṭhito puriso evaṁ vadeyya:\n‘ahaṁ gamanena lokassa antaṁ pāpuṇissāmī’ti.\nSo aññatreva asitapītakhāyitasāyitā aññatra uccārapassāvakammā aññatra niddākilamathapaṭivinodanā vassasatāyuko vassasatajīvī vassasataṁ gantvā appatvāva lokassa antaṁ antarā kālaṁ kareyya.\nAtha pacchimāya disāya …pe…\natha uttarāya disāya …\natha dakkhiṇāya disāya ṭhito puriso evaṁ vadeyya:\n‘ahaṁ gamanena lokassa antaṁ pāpuṇissāmī’ti.\nSo aññatreva asitapītakhāyitasāyitā aññatra uccārapassāvakammā aññatra niddākilamathapaṭivinodanā vassasatāyuko vassasatajīvī vassasataṁ gantvā appatvāva lokassa antaṁ antarā kālaṁ kareyya.\nTaṁ kissa hetu?\nNāhaṁ, brāhmaṇā, evarūpāya sandhāvanikāya lokassa antaṁ ñāteyyaṁ daṭṭheyyaṁ patteyyanti vadāmi.\nNa cāhaṁ, brāhmaṇā, appatvāva lokassa antaṁ dukkhassa antakiriyaṁ vadāmi.","en":"“Suppose there were four men standing in the four quarters. Each of them was extremely fast, with an extremely mighty stride.\nThey’re as fast as a light arrow easily shot across the shadow of a palm tree by a well-trained expert archer with a strong bow.\nTheir stride was such that it spanned from the eastern ocean to the western ocean.\nThen the man standing in the east would say:\n‘I will reach the end of the world by traveling.’\nThough he’d travel for his whole lifespan of a hundred years—pausing only to eat and drink, go to the toilet, and sleep to dispel weariness—he’d die along the way, never reaching the end of the world.\nThen the man standing in the west …\nThen the man standing in the north …\nThen the man standing in the south would say:\n‘I will reach the end of the world by traveling.’\nThough he’d travel for his whole lifespan of a hundred years—pausing only to eat and drink, go to the toilet, and sleep to dispel weariness—he’d die along the way, never reaching the end of the world.\nWhy is that?\nI say it’s not possible to know or see or reach the end of the world by running like this.\nBut I also say there’s no making an end of suffering without reaching the end of the world."}},{"id":"an9.38:5","sourceIds":["an9.38:5.1","an9.38:5.2","an9.38:5.3","an9.38:5.4","an9.38:5.5","an9.38:5.6","an9.38:5.7","an9.38:5.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Pañcime, brāhmaṇā, kāmaguṇā ariyassa vinaye lokoti vuccati.\nKatame pañca?\nCakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā;\nsotaviññeyyā saddā …pe…\nghānaviññeyyā gandhā …\njivhāviññeyyā rasā …\nkāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā;\nime kho, brāhmaṇā, pañca kāmaguṇā ariyassa vinaye lokoti vuccati.","en":"These five kinds of sensual stimulation are called the world in the training of the Noble One.\nWhat five?\nSights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.\nSounds known by the ear …\nSmells known by the nose …\nTastes known by the tongue …\nTouches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.\nThese five kinds of sensual stimulation are called the world in the training of the Noble One."}},{"id":"an9.38:6","sourceIds":["an9.38:6.1","an9.38:6.2","an9.38:6.3","an9.38:6.4","an9.38:6.5","an9.38:6.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Idha, brāhmaṇā, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.\nAyaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇā, ‘bhikkhu lokassa antamāgamma, lokassa ante viharati’.\nTamaññe evamāhaṁsu:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.\nAhampi hi, brāhmaṇā, evaṁ vadāmi:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.","en":"Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.\nThis is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world.\nOthers say of them:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’\nAnd I also say this:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’"}},{"id":"an9.38:7","sourceIds":["an9.38:7.1","an9.38:7.2","an9.38:7.3","an9.38:7.4","an9.38:7.5","an9.38:7.6","an9.38:7.7","an9.38:7.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Puna caparaṁ, brāhmaṇā, bhikkhu vitakkavicārānaṁ vūpasamā …pe… dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ …\ntatiyaṁ jhānaṁ …\ncatutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.\nAyaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇā, ‘bhikkhu lokassa antamāgamma lokassa ante viharati’.\nTamaññe evamāhaṁsu:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.\nAhampi hi, brāhmaṇā, evaṁ vadāmi:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.","en":"Furthermore, take a mendicant who, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, enters and remains in the second absorption …\nthird absorption …\nfourth absorption.\nThis is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world.\nOthers say of them:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’\nAnd I also say this:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’"}},{"id":"an9.38:8","sourceIds":["an9.38:8.1","an9.38:8.2","an9.38:8.3","an9.38:8.4","an9.38:8.5","an9.38:8.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Puna caparaṁ, brāhmaṇā, bhikkhu sabbaso rūpasaññānaṁ samatikkamā paṭighasaññānaṁ atthaṅgamā nānattasaññānaṁ amanasikārā ‘ananto ākāso’ti ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati.\nAyaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇā, ‘bhikkhu lokassa antamāgamma lokassa ante viharati’.\nTamaññe evamāhaṁsu:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.\nAhampi hi, brāhmaṇā, evaṁ vadāmi:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.","en":"Furthermore, take a mendicant who, going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite space.\nThis is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world.\nOthers say of them:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’\nAnd I also say this:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’"}},{"id":"an9.38:9","sourceIds":["an9.38:9.1","an9.38:9.2","an9.38:9.3","an9.38:9.4","an9.38:9.5","an9.38:9.6","an9.38:9.7","an9.38:9.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Puna caparaṁ, brāhmaṇā, bhikkhu sabbaso ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘anantaṁ viññāṇan’ti viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati …pe…\nsabbaso viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘natthi kiñcī’ti ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati …pe…\nsabbaso ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ samatikkamma nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati.\nAyaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇā, ‘bhikkhu lokassa antamāgamma lokassa ante viharati’.\nTamaññe evamāhaṁsu:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.\nAhampi hi, brāhmaṇā, evaṁ vadāmi:\n‘ayampi lokapariyāpanno, ayampi anissaṭo lokamhā’ti.","en":"Furthermore, take a mendicant who enters and remains in the dimension of infinite consciousness. …\nthe dimension of nothingness …\nthe dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.\nThis is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world.\nOthers say of them:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’\nAnd I also say this:\n‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’"}},{"id":"an9.38:10","sourceIds":["an9.38:10.1","an9.38:10.2","an9.38:10.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Puna caparaṁ, brāhmaṇā, bhikkhu sabbaso nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ samatikkamma saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ upasampajja viharati, paññāya cassa disvā āsavā parikkhīṇā honti.\nAyaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇā, ‘bhikkhu lokassa antamāgamma lokassa ante viharati tiṇṇo loke visattikan’”ti.\nSattamaṁ.","en":"Furthermore, take a mendicant who, going totally beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters and remains in the cessation of perception and feeling. And, having seen with wisdom, their defilements come to an end.\nThis is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world. And they’ve crossed over clinging to the world.”"}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/an9.38/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}