{"id":"dn13","title":"Experts in the Three Vedas","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"dn13","title":"Experts in the Three Vedas","units":[{"id":"dn13:0","sourceIds":["dn13:0.1","dn13:0.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Dīgha Nikāya 13\nTevijjasutta","en":"Long Discourses 13\nExperts in the Three Vedas"}},{"id":"dn13:1","sourceIds":["dn13:1.1","dn13:1.2","dn13:1.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ me sutaṁ—\nekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā kosalesu cārikaṁ caramāno mahatā bhikkhusaṅghena saddhiṁ pañcamattehi bhikkhusatehi yena manasākaṭaṁ nāma kosalānaṁ brāhmaṇagāmo tadavasari.\nTatra sudaṁ bhagavā manasākaṭe viharati uttarena manasākaṭassa aciravatiyā nadiyā tīre ambavane.","en":"So I have heard.\nAt one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of five hundred mendicants when he arrived at a village of the Kosalan brahmins named Manasākaṭa.\nHe stayed in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravatī River to the north of Manasākaṭa."}},{"id":"dn13:2","sourceIds":["dn13:2.1","dn13:2.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tena kho pana samayena sambahulā abhiññātā abhiññātā brāhmaṇamahāsālā manasākaṭe paṭivasanti, seyyathidaṁ—\ncaṅkī brāhmaṇo tārukkho brāhmaṇo pokkharasāti brāhmaṇo jāṇusoṇi brāhmaṇo todeyyo brāhmaṇo aññe ca abhiññātā abhiññātā brāhmaṇamahāsālā.","en":"Now at that time several very well-known well-to-do brahmins were residing in Manasākaṭa. They included\nthe brahmins Caṅkī, Tārukkha, Pokkharasāti, Jānussoṇi, Todeyya, and others."}},{"id":"dn13:3","sourceIds":["dn13:3.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho vāseṭṭhabhāradvājānaṁ māṇavānaṁ jaṅghavihāraṁ anucaṅkamantānaṁ anuvicarantānaṁ maggāmagge kathā udapādi.","en":"Then as the students Vāseṭṭha and Bhāradvāja were going for a walk they began a discussion regarding what is the path and what is not the path."}},{"id":"dn13:4","sourceIds":["dn13:4.1","dn13:4.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho vāseṭṭho māṇavo evamāha:\n“ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya, yvāyaṁ akkhāto brāhmaṇena pokkharasātinā”ti.","en":"Vāseṭṭha said this:\n“This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Pokkharasāti.”"}},{"id":"dn13:5","sourceIds":["dn13:5.1","dn13:5.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Bhāradvājopi māṇavo evamāha:\n“ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko, niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya, yvāyaṁ akkhāto brāhmaṇena tārukkhenā”ti.","en":"Bhāradvāja said this:\n“This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Tārukkha.”"}},{"id":"dn13:6","sourceIds":["dn13:6.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Neva kho asakkhi vāseṭṭho māṇavo bhāradvājaṁ māṇavaṁ saññāpetuṁ, na pana asakkhi bhāradvājo māṇavo vāseṭṭhaṁ māṇavaṁ saññāpetuṁ.","en":"But neither was able to persuade the other."}},{"id":"dn13:7","sourceIds":["dn13:7.1","dn13:7.2","dn13:7.3","dn13:7.4","dn13:7.5","dn13:7.6","dn13:7.7"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho vāseṭṭho māṇavo bhāradvājaṁ māṇavaṁ āmantesi:\n“ayaṁ kho, bhāradvāja, samaṇo gotamo sakyaputto sakyakulā pabbajito manasākaṭe viharati uttarena manasākaṭassa aciravatiyā nadiyā tīre ambavane.\nTaṁ kho pana bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ evaṁ kalyāṇo kittisaddo abbhuggato:\n‘itipi so bhagavā arahaṁ sammāsambuddho vijjācaraṇasampanno sugato lokavidū anuttaro purisadammasārathi satthā devamanussānaṁ buddho bhagavā’ti.\nĀyāma, bho bhāradvāja, yena samaṇo gotamo tenupasaṅkamissāma; upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ pucchissāma.\nYathā no samaṇo gotamo byākarissati, tathā naṁ dhāressāmā”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bho”ti kho bhāradvājo māṇavo vāseṭṭhassa māṇavassa paccassosi.","en":"So Vāseṭṭha said to Bhāradvāja,\n“Bhāradvāja, the ascetic Gotama—a Sakyan, gone forth from a Sakyan family—is staying in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravatī River to the north of Manasākaṭa.\nHe has this good reputation:\n‘That Blessed One is perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those fit for training, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed.’\nCome, let’s go to see him and ask him about this matter.\nAs he answers, so we’ll remember it.”\n“Yes, worthy sir,” replied Bhāradvāja."}},{"id":"dn13:8","sourceIds":["dn13:8.0","dn13:8.1","dn13:8.2","dn13:8.3","dn13:8.4","dn13:8.5","dn13:8.6","dn13:8.7","dn13:8.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"1. Maggāmaggakathā\nAtha kho vāseṭṭhabhāradvājā māṇavā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu.\nSammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vāseṭṭho māṇavo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:\n“idha, bho gotama, amhākaṁ jaṅghavihāraṁ anucaṅkamantānaṁ anuvicarantānaṁ maggāmagge kathā udapādi.\nAhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:\n‘ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya, yvāyaṁ akkhāto brāhmaṇena pokkharasātinā’ti.\nBhāradvājo māṇavo evamāha:\n‘ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya, yvāyaṁ akkhāto brāhmaṇena tārukkhenā’ti.\nEttha, bho gotama, attheva viggaho, atthi vivādo, atthi nānāvādo”ti.","en":"1. What is the Path and What is Not the Path\nSo they went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.\nWhen the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and Vāseṭṭha told him of their conversation, adding:\n“In this matter we have a dispute, a disagreement, a difference of opinion.”"}},{"id":"dn13:9","sourceIds":["dn13:9.1","dn13:9.2","dn13:9.3","dn13:9.4","dn13:9.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kira, vāseṭṭha, tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi:\n‘ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya, yvāyaṁ akkhāto brāhmaṇena pokkharasātinā’ti.\nBhāradvājo māṇavo evamāha:\n‘ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya, yvāyaṁ akkhāto brāhmaṇena tārukkhenā’ti.\nAtha kismiṁ pana vo, vāseṭṭha, viggaho, kismiṁ vivādo, kismiṁ nānāvādo”ti?","en":"“So, Vāseṭṭha, it seems that you say that\nthe straight path is that explained by Pokkharasāti,\nwhile Bhāradvāja says that\nthe straight path is that explained by Tārukkha.\nBut what exactly is your disagreement about?”"}},{"id":"dn13:10","sourceIds":["dn13:10.1","dn13:10.2","dn13:10.3","dn13:10.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Maggāmagge, bho gotama.\nKiñcāpi, bho gotama, brāhmaṇā nānāmagge paññāpenti, addhariyā brāhmaṇā tittiriyā brāhmaṇā chandokā brāhmaṇā bavhārijjhā brāhmaṇā, atha kho sabbāni tāni niyyānikā niyyanti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāya.\nSeyyathāpi, bho gotama, gāmassa vā nigamassa vā avidūre bahūni cepi nānāmaggāni bhavanti, atha kho sabbāni tāni gāmasamosaraṇāni bhavanti;\nevameva kho, bho gotama, kiñcāpi brāhmaṇā nānāmagge paññāpenti, addhariyā brāhmaṇā tittiriyā brāhmaṇā chandokā brāhmaṇā bavhārijjhā brāhmaṇā, atha kho sabbāni tāni niyyānikā niyyanti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā”ti.","en":"“About what is the path and what is not the path, worthy Gotama.\nEven though brahmins describe different paths—the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittirīya brahmins, the Chāndogya brahmins, the Cāndrāyaṇa brahmins, and the Bahvṛca brahmins—all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.\nIt’s like a village or town that has many different roads nearby, yet all of them meet at that village.\nIn the same way, even though brahmins describe different paths—the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittirīya brahmins, the Chāndogya brahmins, the Cāndrāyaṇa brahmins, and the Bahvṛca brahmins—all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.”"}},{"id":"dn13:11","sourceIds":["dn13:11.0","dn13:11.1","dn13:11.2","dn13:11.3","dn13:11.4","dn13:11.5","dn13:11.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"2. Vāseṭṭhamāṇavānuyoga\n“Niyyantīti, vāseṭṭha vadesi”?\n“Niyyantīti, bho gotama, vadāmi”.\n“Niyyantīti, vāseṭṭha, vadesi”?\n“Niyyantīti, bho gotama, vadāmi”.\n“Niyyantīti, vāseṭṭha, vadesi”?\n“Niyyantīti, bho gotama, vadāmi”.","en":"2. Questioning Vāseṭṭha\n“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”\n“I do, worthy Gotama.”\n“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”\n“I do, worthy Gotama.”\n“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”\n“I do, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:12","sourceIds":["dn13:12.1","dn13:12.2","dn13:12.3","dn13:12.4","dn13:12.5","dn13:12.6","dn13:12.7","dn13:12.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kiṁ pana, vāseṭṭha, atthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ekabrāhmaṇopi, yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.\n“Kiṁ pana, vāseṭṭha, atthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ekācariyopi, yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.\n“Kiṁ pana, vāseṭṭha, atthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ekācariyapācariyopi, yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.\n“Kiṁ pana, vāseṭṭha, atthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ yāva sattamā ācariyāmahayugā yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"“Well, of the brahmins who are proficient in the three Vedas, Vāseṭṭha, is there even a single one who has seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”\n“Well, has even a single one of their tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”\n“Well, has even a single one of their tutors’ tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”\n“Well, has anyone back to the seventh generation of tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:13","sourceIds":["dn13:13.1","dn13:13.2","dn13:13.3","dn13:13.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kiṁ pana, vāseṭṭha, yepi tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ pubbakā isayo mantānaṁ kattāro mantānaṁ pavattāro, yesamidaṁ etarahi tevijjā brāhmaṇā porāṇaṁ mantapadaṁ gītaṁ pavuttaṁ samihitaṁ, tadanugāyanti, tadanubhāsanti, bhāsitamanubhāsanti, vācitamanuvācenti, seyyathidaṁ—aṭṭhako vāmako vāmadevo vessāmitto yamataggi aṅgīraso bhāradvājo vāseṭṭho kassapo bhagu.\nTepi evamāhaṁsu:\n‘mayametaṁ jānāma, mayametaṁ passāma, yattha vā brahmā, yena vā brahmā, yahiṁ vā brahmā’”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"“Well, what of the ancient seers of the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas, namely Aṭṭhaka, Vāmaka, Vāmadeva, Vessāmitta, Yamadaggi, Aṅgīrasa, Bhāradvāja, Vāseṭṭha, Kassapa, and Bhagu? They were the authors and propagators of the hymns. Their hymnal was sung and propagated and compiled in ancient times; and these days, brahmins continue to sing and chant it, chanting what was chanted and teaching what was taught.\nDid they say:\n‘We know and see where the Divinity is or what way he lies’?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:14","sourceIds":["dn13:14.1","dn13:14.2","dn13:14.3","dn13:14.4","dn13:14.5","dn13:14.6","dn13:14.7","dn13:14.8","dn13:14.9","dn13:14.10","dn13:14.11","dn13:14.12"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kira, vāseṭṭha, natthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ekabrāhmaṇopi, yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNatthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ekācariyopi, yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNatthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ekācariyapācariyopi, yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNatthi koci tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ yāva sattamā ācariyāmahayugā yena brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nYepi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ pubbakā isayo mantānaṁ kattāro mantānaṁ pavattāro, yesamidaṁ etarahi tevijjā brāhmaṇā porāṇaṁ mantapadaṁ gītaṁ pavuttaṁ samihitaṁ, tadanugāyanti, tadanubhāsanti, bhāsitamanubhāsanti, vācitamanuvācenti, seyyathidaṁ—aṭṭhako vāmako vāmadevo vessāmitto yamataggi aṅgīraso bhāradvājo vāseṭṭho kassapo bhagu, tepi na evamāhaṁsu:\n‘mayametaṁ jānāma, mayametaṁ passāma, yattha vā brahmā, yena vā brahmā, yahiṁ vā brahmā’ti.\nTeva tevijjā brāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu:\n‘yaṁ na jānāma, yaṁ na passāma, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desema.\nAyameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko, niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā’ti.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nnanu evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?\n“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.","en":"“So it seems that none of those brahmins have seen the Divinity with their own eyes,\nand not even the ancient seers\nclaimed to know where he is.\nYet the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas say:\n‘We teach the path to the company of that which we neither know nor see.\nThis is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity.’\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nThis being so, doesn’t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”\n“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:15","sourceIds":["dn13:15.1","dn13:15.2","dn13:15.3","dn13:15.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, te vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā yaṁ na jānanti, yaṁ na passanti, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desessanti. ‘Ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko, niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā’ti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nSeyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, andhaveṇi paramparasaṁsattā purimopi na passati, majjhimopi na passati, pacchimopi na passati;\nevameva kho, vāseṭṭha, andhaveṇūpamaṁ maññe tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ bhāsitaṁ, purimopi na passati, majjhimopi na passati, pacchimopi na passati.\nTesamidaṁ tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ bhāsitaṁ hassakaññeva sampajjati, nāmakaññeva sampajjati, rittakaññeva sampajjati, tucchakaññeva sampajjati.","en":"“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.\nSuppose there was a queue of blind men, each holding the one in front: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see.\nIn the same way, it seems to me that the brahmins’ statement turns out to be comparable to a queue of blind men: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see.\nTheir statement turns out to be a joke—mere words, vacuous and hollow."}},{"id":"dn13:16","sourceIds":["dn13:16.1","dn13:16.2","dn13:16.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\npassanti tevijjā brāhmaṇā candimasūriye, aññe cāpi bahujanā, yato ca candimasūriyā uggacchanti, yattha ca ogacchanti, āyācanti thomayanti pañjalikā namassamānā anuparivattantī”ti?\n“Evaṁ, bho gotama, passanti tevijjā brāhmaṇā candimasūriye, aññe cāpi bahujanā, yato ca candimasūriyā uggacchanti, yattha ca ogacchanti, āyācanti thomayanti pañjalikā namassamānā anuparivattantī”ti.","en":"What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nDo the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon just as other folk do? And do they supplicate and entreat them, following their course from where they rise to where they set with cupped palms held in worship?”\n“Yes, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:17","sourceIds":["dn13:17.1","dn13:17.2","dn13:17.3","dn13:17.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nyaṁ passanti tevijjā brāhmaṇā candimasūriye, aññe cāpi bahujanā, yato ca candimasūriyā uggacchanti, yattha ca ogacchanti, āyācanti thomayanti pañjalikā namassamānā anuparivattanti, pahonti tevijjā brāhmaṇā candimasūriyānaṁ sahabyatāya maggaṁ desetuṁ:\n‘ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko, niyyāti takkarassa candimasūriyānaṁ sahabyatāyā’”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"“What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nThough this is so, are the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon, saying:\n‘This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of the sun and moon’?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:18","sourceIds":["dn13:18.1","dn13:18.2","dn13:18.3","dn13:18.4","dn13:18.5","dn13:18.6","dn13:18.7","dn13:18.8","dn13:18.9","dn13:18.10","dn13:18.11","dn13:18.12","dn13:18.13","dn13:18.14"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kira, vāseṭṭha, yaṁ passanti tevijjā brāhmaṇā candimasūriye, aññe cāpi bahujanā, yato ca candimasūriyā uggacchanti, yattha ca ogacchanti, āyācanti thomayanti pañjalikā namassamānā anuparivattanti, tesampi nappahonti candimasūriyānaṁ sahabyatāya maggaṁ desetuṁ:\n‘ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko, niyyāti takkarassa candimasūriyānaṁ sahabyatāyā’ti.\nIti pana na kira tevijjehi brāhmaṇehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNapi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ācariyehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNapi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ācariyapācariyehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNapi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ yāva sattamā ācariyāmahayugehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nYepi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ pubbakā isayo mantānaṁ kattāro mantānaṁ pavattāro, yesamidaṁ etarahi tevijjā brāhmaṇā porāṇaṁ mantapadaṁ gītaṁ pavuttaṁ samihitaṁ, tadanugāyanti, tadanubhāsanti, bhāsitamanubhāsanti, vācitamanuvācenti, seyyathidaṁ—aṭṭhako vāmako vāmadevo vessāmitto yamataggi aṅgīraso bhāradvājo vāseṭṭho kassapo bhagu, tepi na evamāhaṁsu:\n‘mayametaṁ jānāma, mayametaṁ passāma, yattha vā brahmā, yena vā brahmā, yahiṁ vā brahmā’ti.\nTeva tevijjā brāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu:\n‘yaṁ na jānāma, yaṁ na passāma, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desema—ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā’ti.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nnanu evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?\n“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.\n“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, te vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā yaṁ na jānanti, yaṁ na passanti, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desessanti: ‘ayameva ujumaggo, ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko, niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā’ti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"“So it seems that even though the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon, they are not able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon.\nBut it seems that even though they have not seen the Divinity with their own eyes,\nthey still claim\nto teach the path to the company of that which they neither know nor see.\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nThis being so, doesn’t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”\n“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”\n“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see."}},{"id":"dn13:19","sourceIds":["dn13:19.0","dn13:19.1","dn13:19.2","dn13:19.3","dn13:19.4","dn13:19.5","dn13:19.6","dn13:19.7","dn13:19.8","dn13:19.9","dn13:19.10","dn13:19.11","dn13:19.12","dn13:19.13","dn13:19.14","dn13:19.15"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"2.1. Janapadakalyāṇīupamā\nSeyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, puriso evaṁ vadeyya:\n‘ahaṁ yā imasmiṁ janapade janapadakalyāṇī, taṁ icchāmi, taṁ kāmemī’ti.\nTamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:\n‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ—\nkhattiyī vā brāhmaṇī vā vessī vā suddī vā’ti?\nIti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.\nTamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:\n‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ—evaṁnāmā evaṅgottāti vā, dīghā vā rassā vā majjhimā vā kāḷī vā sāmā vā maṅguracchavī vāti, amukasmiṁ gāme vā nigame vā nagare vā’ti?\nIti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.\nTamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:\n‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, taṁ tvaṁ icchasi kāmesī’ti?\nIti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nnanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?\n“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.","en":"2.1. The Simile of the Finest Lady in the Land\nSuppose a man were to say,\n‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’\nThey’d say to him,\n‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether\nshe’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’\nAsked this, he’d say, ‘No.’\nThey’d say to him,\n‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’\nAsked this, he’d say, ‘No.’\nThey’d say to him,\n‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’\nAsked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nThis being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”\n“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:20","sourceIds":["dn13:20.1","dn13:20.2","dn13:20.3","dn13:20.4","dn13:20.5","dn13:20.6","dn13:20.7","dn13:20.8","dn13:20.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Evameva kho, vāseṭṭha, na kira tevijjehi brāhmaṇehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho, napi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ācariyehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho, napi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ācariyapācariyehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nNapi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ yāva sattamā ācariyāmahayugehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nYepi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ pubbakā isayo mantānaṁ kattāro mantānaṁ pavattāro, yesamidaṁ etarahi tevijjā brāhmaṇā porāṇaṁ mantapadaṁ gītaṁ pavuttaṁ samihitaṁ, tadanugāyanti, tadanubhāsanti, bhāsitamanubhāsanti, vācitamanuvācenti, seyyathidaṁ—aṭṭhako vāmako vāmadevo vessāmitto yamataggi aṅgīraso bhāradvājo vāseṭṭho kassapo bhagu, tepi na evamāhaṁsu:\n‘mayametaṁ jānāma, mayametaṁ passāma, yattha vā brahmā, yena vā brahmā, yahiṁ vā brahmā’ti.\nTeva tevijjā brāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu:\n‘yaṁ na jānāma, yaṁ na passāma, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desema—ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā’ti.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha, nanu evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?\n“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.\n“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, te vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā yaṁ na jānanti, yaṁ na passanti, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desessanti—ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyāti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"“In the same way,\ndoesn’t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”\n“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”\n“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see."}},{"id":"dn13:21","sourceIds":["dn13:21.0","dn13:21.1","dn13:21.2","dn13:21.3","dn13:21.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"2.2. Nisseṇīupamā\nSeyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, puriso cātumahāpathe nisseṇiṁ kareyya pāsādassa ārohaṇāya.\nTamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:\n‘ambho purisa, yassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosi, jānāsi taṁ pāsādaṁ—puratthimāya vā disāya dakkhiṇāya vā disāya pacchimāya vā disāya uttarāya vā disāya ucco vā nīco vā majjhimo vā’ti?\nIti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.","en":"2.2. The Simile of the Ladder\nSuppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse.\nThey’d say to him,\n‘My man, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’\nAsked this, he’d say, ‘No.’"}},{"id":"dn13:22","sourceIds":["dn13:22.1","dn13:22.2","dn13:22.3","dn13:22.4","dn13:22.5","dn13:22.6","dn13:22.7","dn13:22.8","dn13:22.9","dn13:22.10","dn13:22.11","dn13:22.12","dn13:22.13"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:\n‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi, na passasi, tassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosī’ti?\nIti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nnanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?\n“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.\n“Evameva kho, vāseṭṭha, na kira tevijjehi brāhmaṇehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho, napi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ācariyehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho, napi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ ācariyapācariyehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho, napi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ yāva sattamā ācariyāmahayugehi brahmā sakkhidiṭṭho.\nYepi kira tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ pubbakā isayo mantānaṁ kattāro mantānaṁ pavattāro, yesamidaṁ etarahi tevijjā brāhmaṇā porāṇaṁ mantapadaṁ gītaṁ pavuttaṁ samihitaṁ, tadanugāyanti, tadanubhāsanti, bhāsitamanubhāsanti, vācitamanuvācenti, seyyathidaṁ—aṭṭhako vāmako vāmadevo vessāmitto yamataggi aṅgīraso bhāradvājo vāseṭṭho kassapo bhagu, tepi na evamāhaṁsu—\nmayametaṁ jānāma, mayametaṁ passāma, yattha vā brahmā, yena vā brahmā, yahiṁ vā brahmāti.\nTeva tevijjā brāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu:\n‘yaṁ na jānāma, yaṁ na passāma, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desema, ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyā’ti.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha, nanu evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?\n“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.","en":"They’d say to him,\n‘My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’\nAsked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nThis being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”\n“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”\n“In the same way,\ndoesn’t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”\n“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:23","sourceIds":["dn13:23.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, te vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā yaṁ na jānanti, yaṁ na passanti, tassa sahabyatāya maggaṁ desessanti. Ayameva ujumaggo ayamañjasāyano niyyāniko niyyāti takkarassa brahmasahabyatāyāti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see."}},{"id":"dn13:24","sourceIds":["dn13:24.0","dn13:24.1","dn13:24.2","dn13:24.3","dn13:24.4","dn13:24.5","dn13:24.6","dn13:24.7"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"2.3. Aciravatīnadīupamā\nSeyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, ayaṁ aciravatī nadī pūrā udakassa samatittikā kākapeyyā.\nAtha puriso āgaccheyya pāratthiko pāragavesī pāragāmī pāraṁ taritukāmo.\nSo orime tīre ṭhito pārimaṁ tīraṁ avheyya:\n‘ehi pārāpāraṁ, ehi pārāpāran’ti.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\napi nu tassa purisassa avhāyanahetu vā āyācanahetu vā patthanahetu vā abhinandanahetu vā aciravatiyā nadiyā pārimaṁ tīraṁ orimaṁ tīraṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"2.3. The Simile of the Aciravatī River\nSuppose the Aciravatī River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it.\nThen along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore.\nStanding on the near shore, they’d call out to the far shore,\n‘Come here, far shore! Come here, far shore!’\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nWould the far shore of the Aciravatī River come over to the near shore because of that man’s call, request, desire, or expectation?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:25","sourceIds":["dn13:25.1","dn13:25.2","dn13:25.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Evameva kho, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā ye dhammā brāhmaṇakārakā te dhamme pahāya vattamānā, ye dhammā abrāhmaṇakārakā te dhamme samādāya vattamānā evamāhaṁsu:\n‘indamavhayāma, somamavhayāma, varuṇamavhayāma, īsānamavhayāma, pajāpatimavhayāma, brahmamavhayāma, mahiddhimavhayāma, yamamavhayāmā’ti.\nTe vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā ye dhammā brāhmaṇakārakā te dhamme pahāya vattamānā, ye dhammā abrāhmaṇakārakā te dhamme samādāya vattamānā avhāyanahetu vā āyācanahetu vā patthanahetu vā abhinandanahetu vā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā brahmānaṁ sahabyūpagā bhavissantīti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"“In the same way, Vāseṭṭha, the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas proceed having given up those things that make one a true brahmin, and having undertaken those things that make one not a true brahmin. Yet they say:\n‘We call upon Indra! We call upon Soma! We call upon Varuṇa! We call upon Īsāna! We call upon the Progenitor! We call upon the Divinity! We call upon Mahiddhi! We call upon Yama!’\nSo long as they proceed in this way it’s impossible that they will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity."}},{"id":"dn13:26","sourceIds":["dn13:26.1","dn13:26.2","dn13:26.3","dn13:26.4","dn13:26.5","dn13:26.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Seyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, ayaṁ aciravatī nadī pūrā udakassa samatittikā kākapeyyā.\nAtha puriso āgaccheyya pāratthiko pāragavesī pāragāmī pāraṁ taritukāmo.\nSo orime tīre daḷhāya anduyā pacchābāhaṁ gāḷhabandhanaṁ baddho.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\napi nu so puriso aciravatiyā nadiyā orimā tīrā pārimaṁ tīraṁ gaccheyyā”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"Suppose the Aciravatī River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it.\nThen along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore.\nBut while still on the near shore, their arms are tied tightly behind their back with a strong chain.\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nCould that person cross over to the far shore?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:27","sourceIds":["dn13:27.1","dn13:27.2","dn13:27.3","dn13:27.4","dn13:27.5","dn13:27.6","dn13:27.7","dn13:27.8","dn13:27.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Evameva kho, vāseṭṭha, pañcime kāmaguṇā ariyassa vinaye andūtipi vuccanti, bandhanantipi vuccanti.\nKatame pañca?\nCakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā.\nSotaviññeyyā saddā …pe…\nghānaviññeyyā gandhā …\njivhāviññeyyā rasā …\nkāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā.\nIme kho, vāseṭṭha, pañca kāmaguṇā ariyassa vinaye andūtipi vuccanti, bandhanantipi vuccanti.\nIme kho, vāseṭṭha, pañca kāmaguṇe tevijjā brāhmaṇā gadhitā mucchitā ajjhopannā anādīnavadassāvino anissaraṇapaññā paribhuñjanti.","en":"“In the same way, the five kinds of sensual stimulation are called ‘chains’ and ‘fetters’ in the training of the Noble One.\nWhat five?\nSights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.\nSounds known by the ear …\nSmells known by the nose …\nTastes known by the tongue …\nTouches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.\nThese are the five kinds of sensual stimulation that are called ‘chains’ and ‘fetters’ in the training of the Noble One.\nThe brahmins proficient in the three Vedas enjoy these five kinds of sensual stimulation tied, infatuated, attached, blind to the drawbacks, and not understanding the escape."}},{"id":"dn13:28","sourceIds":["dn13:28.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Te vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā ye dhammā brāhmaṇakārakā, te dhamme pahāya vattamānā, ye dhammā abrāhmaṇakārakā, te dhamme samādāya vattamānā pañca kāmaguṇe gadhitā mucchitā ajjhopannā anādīnavadassāvino anissaraṇapaññā paribhuñjantā kāmandubandhanabaddhā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā brahmānaṁ sahabyūpagā bhavissantīti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"So long as they enjoy them it’s impossible that they will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity."}},{"id":"dn13:29","sourceIds":["dn13:29.1","dn13:29.2","dn13:29.3","dn13:29.4","dn13:29.5","dn13:29.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Seyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, ayaṁ aciravatī nadī pūrā udakassa samatittikā kākapeyyā.\nAtha puriso āgaccheyya pāratthiko pāragavesī pāragāmī pāraṁ taritukāmo.\nSo orime tīre sasīsaṁ pārupitvā nipajjeyya.\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\napi nu so puriso aciravatiyā nadiyā orimā tīrā pārimaṁ tīraṁ gaccheyyā”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"Suppose the Aciravatī River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it.\nThen along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore.\nBut they’d lie down wrapped in cloth from head to foot.\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nCould that person cross over to the far shore?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:30","sourceIds":["dn13:30.1","dn13:30.2","dn13:30.3","dn13:30.4","dn13:30.5","dn13:30.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Evameva kho, vāseṭṭha, pañcime nīvaraṇā ariyassa vinaye āvaraṇātipi vuccanti, nīvaraṇātipi vuccanti, onāhanātipi vuccanti, pariyonāhanātipi vuccanti.\nKatame pañca?\nKāmacchandanīvaraṇaṁ, byāpādanīvaraṇaṁ, thinamiddhanīvaraṇaṁ, uddhaccakukkuccanīvaraṇaṁ, vicikicchānīvaraṇaṁ.\nIme kho, vāseṭṭha, pañca nīvaraṇā ariyassa vinaye āvaraṇātipi vuccanti, nīvaraṇātipi vuccanti, onāhanātipi vuccanti, pariyonāhanātipi vuccanti.\nImehi kho, vāseṭṭha, pañcahi nīvaraṇehi tevijjā brāhmaṇā āvuṭā nivutā onaddhā pariyonaddhā.\nTe vata, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā ye dhammā brāhmaṇakārakā te dhamme pahāya vattamānā, ye dhammā abrāhmaṇakārakā te dhamme samādāya vattamānā pañcahi nīvaraṇehi āvuṭā nivutā onaddhā pariyonaddhā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā brahmānaṁ sahabyūpagā bhavissantīti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"“In the same way, the five hindrances are called ‘obstacles’ and ‘hindrances’ and ‘encasings’ and ‘shrouds’ in the training of the Noble One.\nWhat five?\nThe hindrances of sensual desire, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, and doubt.\nThese five hindrances are called ‘obstacles’ and ‘hindrances’ and ‘encasings’ and ‘shrouds’ in the training of the Noble One.\nThe brahmins proficient in the three Vedas are obstructed, hindered, swathed, and enveloped by these five hindrances.\nSo long as they are so obstructed it’s impossible that they will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity."}},{"id":"dn13:31","sourceIds":["dn13:31.0","dn13:31.1","dn13:31.2","dn13:31.3","dn13:31.4","dn13:31.5","dn13:31.6","dn13:31.7","dn13:31.8","dn13:31.9","dn13:31.10","dn13:31.11"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"3. Saṁsandanakathā\nTaṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nkinti te sutaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ vuddhānaṁ mahallakānaṁ ācariyapācariyānaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ, sapariggaho vā brahmā apariggaho vā”ti?\n“Apariggaho, bho gotama”.\n“Saveracitto vā averacitto vā”ti?\n“Averacitto, bho gotama”.\n“Sabyāpajjacitto vā abyāpajjacitto vā”ti?\n“Abyāpajjacitto, bho gotama”.\n“Saṅkiliṭṭhacitto vā asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto vā”ti?\n“Asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto, bho gotama”.\n“Vasavattī vā avasavattī vā”ti?\n“Vasavattī, bho gotama”.","en":"3. Converging\nWhat do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nHave you heard that the brahmins who are elderly and senior, the tutors of tutors, say whether the Divinity is encumbered with possessions or not?”\n“That he is not, worthy Gotama.”\n“Is his heart full of enmity or not?”\n“It is not.”\n“Is his heart full of ill will or not?”\n“It is not.”\n“Is his heart corrupted or not?”\n“It is not.”\n“Does he wield power or not?”\n“He does.”"}},{"id":"dn13:32","sourceIds":["dn13:32.1","dn13:32.2","dn13:32.3","dn13:32.4","dn13:32.5","dn13:32.6","dn13:32.7","dn13:32.8","dn13:32.9","dn13:32.10","dn13:32.11"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nsapariggahā vā tevijjā brāhmaṇā apariggahā vā”ti?\n“Sapariggahā, bho gotama”.\n“Saveracittā vā averacittā vā”ti?\n“Saveracittā, bho gotama”.\n“Sabyāpajjacittā vā abyāpajjacittā vā”ti?\n“Sabyāpajjacittā, bho gotama”.\n“Saṅkiliṭṭhacittā vā asaṅkiliṭṭhacittā vā”ti?\n“Saṅkiliṭṭhacittā, bho gotama”.\n“Vasavattī vā avasavattī vā”ti?\n“Avasavattī, bho gotama”.","en":"“What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nAre the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas encumbered with possessions or not?”\n“They are.”\n“Are their hearts full of enmity or not?”\n“They are.”\n“Are their hearts full of ill will or not?”\n“They are.”\n“Are their hearts corrupted or not?”\n“They are.”\n“Do they wield power or not?”\n“They do not.”"}},{"id":"dn13:33","sourceIds":["dn13:33.1","dn13:33.2","dn13:33.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kira, vāseṭṭha, sapariggahā tevijjā brāhmaṇā apariggaho brahmā.\nApi nu kho sapariggahānaṁ tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ apariggahena brahmunā saddhiṁ saṁsandati sametī”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"“So it seems that the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas are encumbered with possessions, but the Divinity is not.\nBut would brahmins who are encumbered with possessions join together and converge with the Divinity, who isn’t encumbered with possessions?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:34","sourceIds":["dn13:34.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, te vata, vāseṭṭha, sapariggahā tevijjā brāhmaṇā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā apariggahassa brahmuno sahabyūpagā bhavissantīti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"“Good, Vāseṭṭha! It’s impossible that the brahmins who are encumbered with possessions will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity, who isn’t encumbered with possessions."}},{"id":"dn13:35","sourceIds":["dn13:35.1","dn13:35.2","dn13:35.3","dn13:35.4","dn13:35.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Iti kira, vāseṭṭha, saveracittā tevijjā brāhmaṇā, averacitto brahmā …pe…\nsabyāpajjacittā tevijjā brāhmaṇā abyāpajjacitto brahmā …\nsaṅkiliṭṭhacittā tevijjā brāhmaṇā asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto brahmā …\navasavattī tevijjā brāhmaṇā vasavattī brahmā, api nu kho avasavattīnaṁ tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ vasavattinā brahmunā saddhiṁ saṁsandati sametī”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.","en":"And it seems that the brahmins have enmity,\nill will,\ncorruption,\nand do not wield power, while the Divinity has no enmity, ill will, or corruption, and who does wield power. But would brahmins who are opposite to the Divinity in all these things join together and converge with him?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.”"}},{"id":"dn13:36","sourceIds":["dn13:36.1","dn13:36.2","dn13:36.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, te vata, vāseṭṭha, avasavattī tevijjā brāhmaṇā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā vasavattissa brahmuno sahabyūpagā bhavissantīti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nIdha kho pana te, vāseṭṭha, tevijjā brāhmaṇā āsīditvā saṁsīdanti, saṁsīditvā visāraṁ pāpuṇanti, sukkhataraṁ maññe taranti.\nTasmā idaṁ tevijjānaṁ brāhmaṇānaṁ tevijjāiriṇantipi vuccati, tevijjāvivanantipi vuccati, tevijjābyasanantipi vuccatī”ti.","en":"“Good, Vāseṭṭha! It’s impossible that brahmins who are opposite to the Divinity in all these things will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity.\nNow in this regard, Vāseṭṭha, those brahmins proficient in the three Vedas, having dived in, sink down. Having sunk down, they undergo drowning, imagining they are crossing to the dry shore.\nThat’s why the three Vedas of the brahmins are called a ‘salted land’ and a ‘barren land’ and a ‘disaster’.”"}},{"id":"dn13:37","sourceIds":["dn13:37.1","dn13:37.2","dn13:37.3","dn13:37.4","dn13:37.5","dn13:37.6","dn13:37.7","dn13:37.8","dn13:37.9","dn13:37.10","dn13:37.11","dn13:37.12"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, vāseṭṭho māṇavo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:\n“sutaṁ metaṁ, bho gotama, samaṇo gotamo brahmānaṁ sahabyatāya maggaṁ jānātī”ti.\n“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha.\nĀsanne ito manasākaṭaṁ, na ito dūre manasākaṭan”ti?\n“Evaṁ, bho gotama, āsanne ito manasākaṭaṁ, na ito dūre manasākaṭan”ti.\n“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nidhassa puriso manasākaṭe jātasaṁvaddho.\nTamenaṁ manasākaṭato tāvadeva avasaṭaṁ manasākaṭassa maggaṁ puccheyyuṁ.\nSiyā nu kho, vāseṭṭha, tassa purisassa manasākaṭe jātasaṁvaddhassa manasākaṭassa maggaṁ puṭṭhassa dandhāyitattaṁ vā vitthāyitattaṁ vā”ti?\n“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”.\n“Taṁ kissa hetu”?\n“Amu hi, bho gotama, puriso manasākaṭe jātasaṁvaddho, tassa sabbāneva manasākaṭassa maggāni suviditānī”ti.","en":"When he said this, Vāseṭṭha said to the Buddha,\n“I have heard, worthy Gotama, that you know the path to company with Divinity.”\n“What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nIs the village of Manasākaṭa nearby?”\n“Yes it is.”\n“What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nSuppose a person was born and raised in Manasākaṭa.\nAnd as soon as they left the town some people asked them for the road to Manasākaṭa.\nWould they be slow or hesitant to answer?”\n“No, worthy Gotama.\nWhy is that?\nBecause they were born and raised in Manasākaṭa. They’re well acquainted with all the roads to the village.”"}},{"id":"dn13:38","sourceIds":["dn13:38.1","dn13:38.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Siyā kho, vāseṭṭha, tassa purisassa manasākaṭe jātasaṁvaddhassa manasākaṭassa maggaṁ puṭṭhassa dandhāyitattaṁ vā vitthāyitattaṁ vā, na tveva tathāgatassa brahmaloke vā brahmalokagāminiyā vā paṭipadāya puṭṭhassa dandhāyitattaṁ vā vitthāyitattaṁ vā.\nBrahmānañcāhaṁ, vāseṭṭha, pajānāmi brahmalokañca brahmalokagāminiñca paṭipadaṁ, yathā paṭipanno ca brahmalokaṁ upapanno, tañca pajānāmī”ti.","en":"“Still, it’s possible they might be slow or hesitant to answer. But the Realized One is never slow or hesitant when questioned about the realm of divinity or the practice that leads to the realm of divinity.\nI understand the Divinity, the realm of divinity, and the practice that leads to the realm of divinity, practicing in accordance with which one is reborn in the realm of divinity.”"}},{"id":"dn13:39","sourceIds":["dn13:39.1","dn13:39.2","dn13:39.3","dn13:39.4","dn13:39.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, vāseṭṭho māṇavo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:\n“sutaṁ metaṁ, bho gotama, samaṇo gotamo brahmānaṁ sahabyatāya maggaṁ desetī”ti.\n“Sādhu no bhavaṁ gotamo brahmānaṁ sahabyatāya maggaṁ desetu ullumpatu bhavaṁ gotamo brāhmaṇiṁ pajan”ti.\n“Tena hi, vāseṭṭha, suṇāhi; sādhukaṁ manasi karohi; bhāsissāmī”ti.\n“Evaṁ, bho”ti kho vāseṭṭho māṇavo bhagavato paccassosi.","en":"When he said this, Vāseṭṭha said to the Buddha,\n“I have heard, worthy Gotama, that you teach the path to company with Divinity.\nPlease teach us that path and elevate this generation of brahmins.”\n“Well then, Vāseṭṭha, listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.”\n“Yes, worthy sir,” replied Vāseṭṭha."}},{"id":"dn13:40-75","sourceIds":["dn13:40-75.0","dn13:40-75.1","dn13:40-75.2","dn13:40-75.3","dn13:40-75.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"4. Brahmalokamaggadesanā\nBhagavā etadavoca:\n“idha, vāseṭṭha, tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ, sammāsambuddho …pe…\nEvaṁ kho, vāseṭṭha, bhikkhu sīlasampanno hoti …pe…\ntassime pañca nīvaraṇe pahīne attani samanupassato pāmojjaṁ jāyati, pamuditassa pīti jāyati, pītimanassa kāyo passambhati, passaddhakāyo sukhaṁ vedeti, sukhino cittaṁ samādhiyati.","en":"4. Teaching the Path to the Divinity\nThe Buddha said this:\n“It’s when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha …\nThat’s how a mendicant is accomplished in ethics. …\nSeeing that the hindrances have been given up in them, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed."}},{"id":"dn13:76","sourceIds":["dn13:76.1"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"So mettāsahagatena cetasā ekaṁ disaṁ pharitvā viharati. Tathā dutiyaṁ. Tathā tatiyaṁ. Tathā catutthaṁ. Iti uddhamadho tiriyaṁ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṁ lokaṁ mettāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati.","en":"They meditate spreading a heart full of love to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of love to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will."}},{"id":"dn13:77","sourceIds":["dn13:77.1","dn13:77.2","dn13:77.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Seyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, balavā saṅkhadhamo appakasireneva catuddisā viññāpeyya;\nevameva kho, vāseṭṭha, evaṁ bhāvitāya mettāya cetovimuttiyā yaṁ pamāṇakataṁ kammaṁ na taṁ tatrāvasissati, na taṁ tatrāvatiṭṭhati.\nAyampi kho, vāseṭṭha, brahmānaṁ sahabyatāya maggo.","en":"Suppose there was a powerful horn blower. They’d easily make themselves heard in the four quarters.\nIn the same way, when the heart’s release by love has been developed like this, any limited deeds they’ve done don’t remain or persist there.\nThis is a path to company with Divinity."}},{"id":"dn13:78","sourceIds":["dn13:78.1","dn13:78.2","dn13:78.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Puna caparaṁ, vāseṭṭha, bhikkhu karuṇāsahagatena cetasā …pe…\nmuditāsahagatena cetasā …pe…\nupekkhāsahagatena cetasā ekaṁ disaṁ pharitvā viharati. Tathā dutiyaṁ. Tathā tatiyaṁ. Tathā catutthaṁ. Iti uddhamadho tiriyaṁ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṁ lokaṁ upekkhāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati.","en":"Furthermore, a mendicant meditates spreading a heart full of compassion …\nThey meditate spreading a heart full of rejoicing …\nThey meditate spreading a heart full of equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will."}},{"id":"dn13:79","sourceIds":["dn13:79.1","dn13:79.2","dn13:79.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Seyyathāpi, vāseṭṭha, balavā saṅkhadhamo appakasireneva catuddisā viññāpeyya;\nevameva kho, vāseṭṭha, evaṁ bhāvitāya upekkhāya cetovimuttiyā yaṁ pamāṇakataṁ kammaṁ na taṁ tatrāvasissati, na taṁ tatrāvatiṭṭhati.\nAyampi kho, vāseṭṭha, brahmānaṁ sahabyatāya maggo.","en":"Suppose there was a powerful horn blower. They’d easily make themselves heard in the four quarters.\nIn the same way, when the heart’s release by equanimity has been developed and cultivated like this, any limited deeds they’ve done don’t remain or persist there.\nThis too is a path to company with Divinity."}},{"id":"dn13:80","sourceIds":["dn13:80.1","dn13:80.2","dn13:80.3","dn13:80.4","dn13:80.5","dn13:80.6","dn13:80.7","dn13:80.8","dn13:80.9","dn13:80.10","dn13:80.11"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vāseṭṭha,\nevaṁvihārī bhikkhu sapariggaho vā apariggaho vā”ti?\n“Apariggaho, bho gotama”.\n“Saveracitto vā averacitto vā”ti?\n“Averacitto, bho gotama”.\n“Sabyāpajjacitto vā abyāpajjacitto vā”ti?\n“Abyāpajjacitto, bho gotama”.\n“Saṅkiliṭṭhacitto vā asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto vā”ti?\n“Asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto, bho gotama”.\n“Vasavattī vā avasavattī vā”ti?\n“Vasavattī, bho gotama”.","en":"What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?\nWhen a mendicant meditates like this, are they encumbered with possessions or not?”\n“They are not.”\n“Is their heart full of enmity or not?”\n“It is not.”\n“Is their heart full of ill will or not?”\n“It is not.”\n“Is their heart corrupted or not?”\n“It is not.”\n“Do they wield power or not?”\n“They do.”"}},{"id":"dn13:81","sourceIds":["dn13:81.1","dn13:81.2","dn13:81.3","dn13:81.4","dn13:81.5","dn13:81.6","dn13:81.7","dn13:81.8","dn13:81.9","dn13:81.10"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Iti kira, vāseṭṭha, apariggaho bhikkhu, apariggaho brahmā.\nApi nu kho apariggahassa bhikkhuno apariggahena brahmunā saddhiṁ saṁsandati sametī”ti?\n“Evaṁ, bho gotama”.\n“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, so vata vāseṭṭha apariggaho bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā apariggahassa brahmuno sahabyūpago bhavissatīti, ṭhānametaṁ vijjati.\nIti kira, vāseṭṭha, averacitto bhikkhu, averacitto brahmā …pe…\nabyāpajjacitto bhikkhu, abyāpajjacitto brahmā …\nasaṅkiliṭṭhacitto bhikkhu, asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto brahmā …\nvasavattī bhikkhu, vasavattī brahmā, api nu kho vasavattissa bhikkhuno vasavattinā brahmunā saddhiṁ saṁsandati sametī”ti?\n“Evaṁ, bho gotama”.\n“Sādhu, vāseṭṭha, so vata, vāseṭṭha, vasavattī bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā vasavattissa brahmuno sahabyūpago bhavissatīti, ṭhānametaṁ vijjatī”ti.","en":"“So it seems that that mendicant is not encumbered with possessions, and neither is the Divinity.\nWould a mendicant who is not encumbered with possessions join together and converge with the Divinity, who isn’t encumbered with possessions?”\n“Yes, worthy Gotama.”\n“Good, Vāseṭṭha! It’s quite possible that a mendicant who is not encumbered with possessions will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity, who isn’t encumbered with possessions.\nAnd it seems that that mendicant has no enmity,\nill will,\ncorruption,\nand does wield power, while the Divinity is the same in all these things. Would a mendicant who is the same as the Divinity in all things join together and converge with him?”\n“Yes, worthy Gotama.”\n“Good, Vāseṭṭha! It’s quite possible that that mendicant will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity.”"}},{"id":"dn13:82","sourceIds":["dn13:82.1","dn13:82.2","dn13:82.3","dn13:82.4","dn13:82.5","dn13:82.6","dn13:82.7"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, vāseṭṭhabhāradvājā māṇavā bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ:\n“abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama, abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama.\nSeyyathāpi, bho gotama, nikkujjitaṁ vā ukkujjeyya, paṭicchannaṁ vā vivareyya, mūḷhassa vā maggaṁ ācikkheyya, andhakāre vā telapajjotaṁ dhāreyya: ‘cakkhumanto rūpāni dakkhantī’ti; evamevaṁ bhotā gotamena anekapariyāyena dhammo pakāsito.\nEte mayaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāma, dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca.\nUpāsake no bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupete saraṇaṁ gate”ti.\nTevijjasuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ terasamaṁ.\nSīlakkhandhavaggo niṭṭhito.","en":"When he had spoken, Vāseṭṭha and Bhāradvāja said to him,\n“Excellent, worthy Gotama! Excellent!\nAs if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what’s there, worthy Gotama has made the teaching clear in many ways.\nWe go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha.\nFrom this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember us as lay followers who have gone for refuge for life.”"}},{"id":"dn13:83","sourceIds":["dn13:83.0","dn13:83.1","dn13:83.2","dn13:83.3","dn13:83.4","dn13:83.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tassuddānaṁ\nBrahmāsāmaññaambaṭṭha,\nSoṇakūṭamahālijālinī;\nSīhapoṭṭhapādasubho kevaṭṭo,\nLohiccatevijjā terasāti.\nSīlakkhandhavaggapāḷi niṭṭhitā."}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/dn13/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}