{"id":"sn12.24","title":"Followers of Other Religions","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"sn12.24","title":"Followers of Other Religions","units":[{"id":"sn12.24:0","sourceIds":["sn12.24:0.1","sn12.24:0.2","sn12.24:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.24\n3. Dasabalavagga\nAññatitthiyasutta","en":"Linked Discourses 12.24\n3. The Ten Powers\nFollowers of Other Religions"}},{"id":"sn12.24:1","sourceIds":["sn12.24:1.1","sn12.24:1.2","sn12.24:1.3","sn12.24:1.4","sn12.24:1.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Rājagahe viharati veḷuvane.\nAtha kho āyasmā sāriputto pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi.\nAtha kho āyasmato sāriputtassa etadahosi:\n“atippago kho tāva rājagahe piṇḍāya carituṁ.\nYannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti.","en":"Near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove.\nThen Venerable Sāriputta robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.\nThen it occurred to him,\n“It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.\nWhy don’t I visit the monastery for the wanderers of other religions?”"}},{"id":"sn12.24:2","sourceIds":["sn12.24:2.1","sn12.24:2.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodi.\nSammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:","en":"Then he went to the monastery for the wanderers of other religions and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.\nWhen the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. The wanderers said to him:"}},{"id":"sn12.24:3","sourceIds":["sn12.24:3.1","sn12.24:3.2","sn12.24:3.3","sn12.24:3.4","sn12.24:3.5","sn12.24:3.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nSanti panāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nSantāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nSanti panāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nIdha, panāvuso sāriputta, samaṇo gotamo kiṁvādī kimakkhāyī?\nKathaṁ byākaramānā ca mayaṁ vuttavādino ceva samaṇassa gotamassa assāma, na ca samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyāma, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyāma, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?","en":"“Reverend Sāriputta, there are ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. Some of them assert that suffering is made by oneself.\nSome of them assert that suffering is made by another.\nSome of them assert that suffering is made by both oneself and another.\nSome of them assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nWhat does the ascetic Gotama say about this? How does he explain it?\nHow should we answer so as to repeat what the ascetic Gotama has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should we explain in line with his teaching, with no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”"}},{"id":"sn12.24:4","sourceIds":["sn12.24:4.1","sn12.24:4.2","sn12.24:4.3","sn12.24:4.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, āvuso, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatā.\nKiṁ paṭicca?\nPhassaṁ paṭicca.\nIti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assa, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyya.","en":"“Reverends, the Buddha has said that suffering is dependently originated.\nDependent on what?\nDependent on contact.\nIn speaking like this, you would repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth. You would explain in line with his teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism."}},{"id":"sn12.24:5","sourceIds":["sn12.24:5.1","sn12.24:5.2","sn12.24:5.3","sn12.24:5.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.\nYepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.\nYepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.\nYepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.","en":"Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, that’s dependent on contact.\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering is made by another, that’s also dependent on contact.\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself and another, that’s also dependent on contact.\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that’s also dependent on contact."}},{"id":"sn12.24:6","sourceIds":["sn12.24:6.1","sn12.24:6.2","sn12.24:6.3","sn12.24:6.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nYepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nYepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nYepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī”ti.","en":"Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.\nIn the case of those who declare that suffering is made by another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself and another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”"}},{"id":"sn12.24:7","sourceIds":["sn12.24:7.1","sn12.24:7.2","sn12.24:7.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Assosi kho āyasmā ānando āyasmato sāriputtassa tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ imaṁ kathāsallāpaṁ.\nAtha kho āyasmā ānando rājagahe piṇḍāya caritvā pacchābhattaṁ piṇḍapātapaṭikkanto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi.\nEkamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā ānando yāvatako āyasmato sāriputtassa tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ ahosi kathāsallāpo taṁ sabbaṁ bhagavato ārocesi.","en":"Venerable Ānanda heard this discussion between Venerable Sāriputta and those wanderers of other religions.\nThen Ānanda wandered for alms in Rājagaha. After the meal, on his return from almsround, he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side,\nand informed the Buddha of all they had discussed."}},{"id":"sn12.24:8","sourceIds":["sn12.24:8.1","sn12.24:8.2","sn12.24:8.3","sn12.24:8.4","sn12.24:8.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Sādhu sādhu, ānanda, yathā taṁ sāriputto sammā byākaramāno byākareyya.\nPaṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, ānanda, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ mayā.\nKiṁ paṭicca?\nPhassaṁ paṭicca.\nIti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva me assa, na ca maṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyya.","en":"“Good, good, Ānanda! It’s just as Sāriputta has so rightly explained.\nI have said that suffering is dependently originated.\nDependent on what?\nDependent on contact.\nSaying this you would repeat what I have said, and not misrepresent me with an untruth. You would explain in line with my teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism."}},{"id":"sn12.24:9","sourceIds":["sn12.24:9.1","sn12.24:9.2","sn12.24:9.3","sn12.24:9.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tatrānanda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.\nYepi te …pe…\nyepi te …pe…\nyepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.","en":"Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, that’s dependent on contact. …\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that’s also dependent on contact."}},{"id":"sn12.24:10","sourceIds":["sn12.24:10.1","sn12.24:10.2","sn12.24:10.3","sn12.24:10.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tatrānanda, yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nYepi te …pe…\nyepi te …pe…\nyepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.","en":"In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact. …\nIn the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact."}},{"id":"sn12.24:11","sourceIds":["sn12.24:11.1","sn12.24:11.2","sn12.24:11.3","sn12.24:11.4","sn12.24:11.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Ekamidāhaṁ, ānanda, samayaṁ idheva rājagahe viharāmi veḷuvane kalandakanivāpe.\nAtha khvāhaṁ, ānanda, pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pāvisiṁ.\nTassa mayhaṁ, ānanda, etadahosi:\n‘atippago kho tāva rājagahe piṇḍāya carituṁ.\nYannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan’ti.","en":"Ānanda, this one time I was staying near Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground.\nThen I robed up in the morning and, taking my bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.\nThen I thought:\n‘It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.\nWhy don’t I visit the monastery for the wanderers of other religions?’"}},{"id":"sn12.24:12","sourceIds":["sn12.24:12.1","sn12.24:12.2"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha khvāhaṁ, ānanda, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodiṁ.\nSammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁ. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho maṁ, ānanda, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:","en":"Then I went to the monastery for the wanderers of other religions and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.\nWhen the greetings and polite conversation were over, I sat down to one side. …”"}},{"id":"sn12.24:13","sourceIds":["sn12.24:13.1","sn12.24:13.2","sn12.24:13.3","sn12.24:13.4","sn12.24:13.5","sn12.24:13.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"‘Santāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nSanti panāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nSantāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nSanti panāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.\nIdha no āyasmā gotamo kiṁvādī kimakkhāyī?\nKathaṁ byākaramānā ca mayaṁ vuttavādino ceva āyasmato gotamassa assāma, na ca āyasmantaṁ gotamaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyāma, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyāma, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā’ti?","en":"(The wanderers asked the Buddha the very same questions, and he gave the same answers.)"}},{"id":"sn12.24:14","sourceIds":["sn12.24:14.1","sn12.24:14.2","sn12.24:14.3","sn12.24:14.4","sn12.24:14.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, ānanda, te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavocaṁ:\n‘paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, āvuso, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ mayā.\nKiṁ paṭicca?\nPhassaṁ paṭicca.\nIti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva me assa, na ca maṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyāti."}},{"id":"sn12.24:15","sourceIds":["sn12.24:15.1","sn12.24:15.2","sn12.24:15.3","sn12.24:15.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.\nYepi te …pe…\nyepi te …pe…\nyepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā."}},{"id":"sn12.24:16","sourceIds":["sn12.24:16.1","sn12.24:16.2","sn12.24:16.3","sn12.24:16.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.\nYepi te …pe…\nyepi te …pe…\nyepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī’”ti."}},{"id":"sn12.24:17","sourceIds":["sn12.24:17.1","sn12.24:17.2","sn12.24:17.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Acchariyaṁ bhante, abbhutaṁ bhante.\nYatra hi nāma ekena padena sabbo attho vutto bhavissati.\nSiyā nu kho, bhante, esevattho vitthārena vuccamāno gambhīro ceva assa gambhīrāvabhāso cā”ti?","en":"“It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing,\nhow the whole matter is stated with one phrase.\nCould there be a detailed explanation of this matter that is both deep and appears deep?”"}},{"id":"sn12.24:18","sourceIds":["sn12.24:18.1","sn12.24:18.2","sn12.24:18.3","sn12.24:18.4","sn12.24:18.5","sn12.24:18.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Tena hānanda, taññevettha paṭibhātū”ti.\n“Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:\n‘jarāmaraṇaṁ, āvuso ānanda, kiṁnidānaṁ kiṁsamudayaṁ kiṁjātikaṁ kiṁpabhavan’ti?\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:\n‘jarāmaraṇaṁ kho, āvuso, jātinidānaṁ jātisamudayaṁ jātijātikaṁ jātipabhavan’ti.\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.","en":"“Well then, Ānanda, clarify this matter yourself.”\n“Sir, suppose they were to ask me:\n‘Reverend Ānanda, what is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of old age and death?’\nI’d answer like this:\n‘Reverends, rebirth is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of old age and death.’\nThat’s how I’d answer such a question."}},{"id":"sn12.24:19","sourceIds":["sn12.24:19.1","sn12.24:19.2","sn12.24:19.3","sn12.24:19.4","sn12.24:19.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:\n‘jāti panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā’ti?\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:\n‘jāti kho, āvuso, bhavanidānā bhavasamudayā bhavajātikā bhavappabhavā’ti.\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.","en":"Suppose they were to ask me:\n‘What is the source of rebirth?’\nI’d answer like this:\n‘Continued existence is the source of rebirth.’\nThat’s how I’d answer such a question."}},{"id":"sn12.24:20","sourceIds":["sn12.24:20.1","sn12.24:20.2","sn12.24:20.3","sn12.24:20.4","sn12.24:20.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:\n‘bhavo panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidāno kiṁsamudayo kiṁjātiko kiṁpabhavo’ti?\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:\n‘bhavo kho, āvuso, upādānanidāno upādānasamudayo upādānajātiko upādānappabhavo’ti.\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.","en":"Suppose they were to ask me:\n‘What is the source of continued existence?’\nI’d answer like this:\n‘Grasping is the source of continued existence.’\nThat’s how I’d answer such a question."}},{"id":"sn12.24:21","sourceIds":["sn12.24:21.1","sn12.24:21.2","sn12.24:21.3","sn12.24:21.4","sn12.24:21.5","sn12.24:21.6","sn12.24:21.7","sn12.24:21.8","sn12.24:21.9","sn12.24:21.10","sn12.24:21.11","sn12.24:21.12","sn12.24:21.13","sn12.24:21.14","sn12.24:21.15","sn12.24:21.16","sn12.24:21.17","sn12.24:21.18"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ—\nupādānaṁ panāvuso …pe…\ntaṇhā panāvuso …pe…\nvedanā panāvuso …pe…\nsace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:\n‘phasso panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidāno kiṁsamudayo kiṁjātiko kiṁpabhavo’ti?\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:\n‘phasso kho, āvuso, saḷāyatananidāno saḷāyatanasamudayo saḷāyatanajātiko saḷāyatanappabhavo’ti.\n‘Channaṁ tveva, āvuso, phassāyatanānaṁ asesavirāganirodhā phassanirodho;\nphassanirodhā vedanānirodho;\nvedanānirodhā taṇhānirodho;\ntaṇhānirodhā upādānanirodho;\nupādānanirodhā bhavanirodho;\nbhavanirodhā jātinirodho;\njātinirodhā jarāmaraṇaṁ sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā nirujjhanti.\nEvametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’ti.\nEvaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.\nCatutthaṁ.","en":"Suppose they were to ask me:\n‘What is the source of grasping?’ …\ncraving …\nfeeling …\nSuppose they were to ask me:\n‘What is the source of contact?’\nI’d answer like this:\n‘The six sense fields are the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of contact.’\n‘When the six fields of contact fade away and cease with no residue left behind, contact ceases.\nWhen contact ceases, feeling ceases.\nWhen feeling ceases, craving ceases.\nWhen craving ceases, grasping ceases.\nWhen grasping ceases, continued existence ceases.\nWhen continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases.\nWhen rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease.\nThat is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’\nThat’s how I’d answer such a question.”"}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/sn12.24/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}