{"id":"sn12.67","title":"Sheaves of Reeds","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"sn12.67","title":"Sheaves of Reeds","units":[{"id":"sn12.67:0","sourceIds":["sn12.67:0.1","sn12.67:0.2","sn12.67:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.67\n7. Mahāvagga\nNaḷakalāpīsutta","en":"Linked Discourses 12.67\n7. The Great Chapter\nSheaves of Reeds"}},{"id":"sn12.67:1","sourceIds":["sn12.67:1.1","sn12.67:1.2","sn12.67:1.3","sn12.67:1.4","sn12.67:1.5","sn12.67:1.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca sāriputto āyasmā ca mahākoṭṭhiko bārāṇasiyaṁ viharanti isipatane migadāye.\nAtha kho āyasmā mahākoṭṭhiko sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yenāyasmā sāriputto tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā sāriputtena saddhiṁ sammodi.\nSammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā mahākoṭṭhiko āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ etadavoca:\n“kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, paraṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca jarāmaraṇaṁ, udāhu asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ jarāmaraṇan”ti?\n“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca jarāmaraṇaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ.\nApi ca jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan”ti.","en":"At one time Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita were staying near Varanasi in the deer park at Isipatana.\nThen in the late afternoon, Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita came out of retreat, went to Venerable Sāriputta, and exchanged greetings with him.\nWhen the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Sāriputta:\n“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, are old age and death made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”\n“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, old age and death are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nRather, rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.”"}},{"id":"sn12.67:2","sourceIds":["sn12.67:2.1","sn12.67:2.2","sn12.67:2.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkatā jāti, paraṅkatā jāti, sayaṅkatā ca paraṅkatā ca jāti, udāhu asayaṅkārā aparaṅkārā adhiccasamuppannā jātī”ti?\n“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkatā jāti, na paraṅkatā jāti, na sayaṅkatā ca paraṅkatā ca jāti, nāpi asayaṅkārā aparaṅkārā adhiccasamuppannā jāti.\nApi ca bhavapaccayā jātī”ti.","en":"“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is rebirth made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”\n“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, rebirth is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nRather, continued existence is a requirement for rebirth.”"}},{"id":"sn12.67:3","sourceIds":["sn12.67:3.1","sn12.67:3.2","sn12.67:3.3","sn12.67:3.4","sn12.67:3.5","sn12.67:3.6","sn12.67:3.7","sn12.67:3.8","sn12.67:3.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkato bhavo …pe…\nsayaṅkataṁ upādānaṁ …\nsayaṅkatā taṇhā …\nsayaṅkatā vedanā …\nsayaṅkato phasso …\nsayaṅkataṁ saḷāyatanaṁ …\nsayaṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, paraṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca nāmarūpaṁ, udāhu asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ nāmarūpan”ti?\n“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca nāmarūpaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ, adhiccasamuppannaṁ nāmarūpaṁ.\nApi ca viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpan”ti.","en":"“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is continued existence made by oneself? …” …\n“Is grasping made by oneself? …” …\n“Is craving made by oneself? …” …\n“Is feeling made by oneself? …” …\n“Is contact made by oneself? …” …\n“Are the six sense fields made by oneself? …” …\n“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, are name and form made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”\n“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, name and form are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nRather, consciousness is a requirement for name and form.”"}},{"id":"sn12.67:4","sourceIds":["sn12.67:4.1","sn12.67:4.2","sn12.67:4.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, paraṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca viññāṇaṁ, udāhu asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇan”ti?\n“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca viññāṇaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇaṁ.\nApi ca nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇan”ti.","en":"“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is consciousness made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”\n“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, consciousness is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nRather, name and form are requirements for consciousness.”"}},{"id":"sn12.67:5","sourceIds":["sn12.67:5.1","sn12.67:5.2","sn12.67:5.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Idāneva kho mayaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa bhāsitaṁ evaṁ ājānāma:\n‘na khvāvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca nāmarūpaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ nāmarūpaṁ.\nApi ca viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpan’ti.","en":"“Just now I understood you to say:\n‘No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, name and form are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nRather, consciousness is a requirement for name and form.’"}},{"id":"sn12.67:6","sourceIds":["sn12.67:6.1","sn12.67:6.2","sn12.67:6.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Idāneva ca pana mayaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa bhāsitaṁ evaṁ ājānāma:\n‘na khvāvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca viññāṇaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇaṁ.\nApi ca nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇan’ti.","en":"But I also understood you to say:\n‘No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, consciousness is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.\nRather, name and form are requirements for consciousness.’"}},{"id":"sn12.67:7","sourceIds":["sn12.67:7.1","sn12.67:7.2","sn12.67:7.3","sn12.67:7.4","sn12.67:7.5","sn12.67:7.6","sn12.67:7.7","sn12.67:7.8","sn12.67:7.9","sn12.67:7.10","sn12.67:7.11","sn12.67:7.12","sn12.67:7.13","sn12.67:7.14","sn12.67:7.15","sn12.67:7.16"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Yathā kathaṁ panāvuso sāriputta, imassa bhāsitassa attho daṭṭhabbo”ti?\n“Tenahāvuso, upamaṁ te karissāmi.\nUpamāyapidhekacce viññū purisā bhāsitassa atthaṁ jānanti.\nSeyyathāpi, āvuso, dve naḷakalāpiyo aññamaññaṁ nissāya tiṭṭheyyuṁ.\nEvameva kho, āvuso, nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇaṁ;\nviññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṁ;\nnāmarūpapaccayā saḷāyatanaṁ;\nsaḷāyatanapaccayā phasso …pe…\nevametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti.\nTāsañce, āvuso, naḷakalāpīnaṁ ekaṁ ākaḍḍheyya, ekā papateyya;\naparañce ākaḍḍheyya, aparā papateyya.\nEvameva kho, āvuso, nāmarūpanirodhā viññāṇanirodho;\nviññāṇanirodhā nāmarūpanirodho;\nnāmarūpanirodhā saḷāyatananirodho;\nsaḷāyatananirodhā phassanirodho …pe…\nevametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī”ti.","en":"How then should we see the meaning of this statement?”\n“Well then, reverend, I shall give you a simile.\nFor by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said.\nSuppose there were two sheaves of reeds leaning up against each other.\nIn the same way, name and form are requirements for consciousness.\nConsciousness is a requirement for name and form.\nName and form are requirements for the six sense fields.\nThe six sense fields are requirements for contact. …\nThat is how this entire mass of suffering originates.\nIf the first of those sheaves of reeds were to be pulled away, the other would collapse.\nAnd if the other were to be pulled away, the first would collapse.\nIn the same way, when name and form cease, consciousness ceases.\nWhen consciousness ceases, name and form cease.\nWhen name and form cease, the six sense fields cease.\nWhen the six sense fields cease, contact ceases. …\nThat is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.”"}},{"id":"sn12.67:8","sourceIds":["sn12.67:8.1","sn12.67:8.2","sn12.67:8.3","sn12.67:8.4"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Acchariyaṁ, āvuso sāriputta;\nabbhutaṁ, āvuso sāriputta.\nYāvasubhāsitañcidaṁ āyasmatā sāriputtena.\nIdañca pana mayaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa bhāsitaṁ imehi chattiṁsāya vatthūhi anumodāma:","en":"“It’s incredible, Reverend Sāriputta, it’s amazing!\nHow well spoken this was by Venerable Sāriputta!\nAnd we can express our agreement with Venerable Sāriputta’s statement on these thirty-six grounds."}},{"id":"sn12.67:9","sourceIds":["sn12.67:9.1","sn12.67:9.2","sn12.67:9.3","sn12.67:9.4","sn12.67:9.5","sn12.67:9.6","sn12.67:9.7","sn12.67:9.8","sn12.67:9.9","sn12.67:9.10","sn12.67:9.11","sn12.67:9.12","sn12.67:9.13","sn12.67:9.14","sn12.67:9.15","sn12.67:9.16","sn12.67:9.17"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"‘Jarāmaraṇassa ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya dhammaṁ deseti, dhammakathiko bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.\nJarāmaraṇassa ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya paṭipanno hoti, dhammānudhammappaṭipanno bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.\nJarāmaraṇassa ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidā virāgā nirodhā anupādā vimutto hoti, diṭṭhadhammanibbānappatto bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.\nJātiyā ce …\nbhavassa ce …\nupādānassa ce …\ntaṇhāya ce …\nvedanāya ce …\nphassassa ce …\nsaḷāyatanassa ce …\nnāmarūpassa ce …\nviññāṇassa ce …\nsaṅkhārānañce …\navijjāya ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya dhammaṁ deseti, dhammakathiko bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.\nAvijjāya ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya paṭipanno hoti, dhammānudhammappaṭipanno bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.\nAvijjāya ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidā virāgā nirodhā anupādā vimutto hoti, diṭṭhadhammanibbānappatto bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāyā’”ti.\nSattamaṁ.","en":"If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who speaks on Dhamma’.\nIf they practice for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who practices in line with the teaching’.\nIf they’re freed by not grasping by disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who has attained extinguishment in this very life’.\nIf a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment regarding rebirth …\ncontinued existence …\ngrasping …\ncraving …\nfeeling …\ncontact …\nthe six sense fields …\nname and form …\nconsciousness …\nchoices …\nIf a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who speaks on Dhamma’.\nIf they practice for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who practices in line with the teaching’.\nIf they’re freed by not grasping by disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who has attained extinguishment in this very life’.”"}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/sn12.67/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}