{"id":"sn41.3","title":"With Isidatta (2nd)","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"sn41.3","title":"With Isidatta (2nd)","units":[{"id":"sn41.3:0","sourceIds":["sn41.3:0.1","sn41.3:0.2","sn41.3:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Saṁyutta Nikāya 41.3\n1. Cittavagga\nDutiyaisidattasutta","en":"Linked Discourses 41.3\n1. With Citta\nWith Isidatta (2nd)"}},{"id":"sn41.3:1","sourceIds":["sn41.3:1.1","sn41.3:1.2","sn41.3:1.3","sn41.3:1.4","sn41.3:1.5","sn41.3:1.6"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Ekaṁ samayaṁ sambahulā therā bhikkhū macchikāsaṇḍe viharanti ambāṭakavane.\nAtha kho citto gahapati yena therā bhikkhū tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā there bhikkhū abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho citto gahapati there bhikkhū etadavoca:\n“adhivāsentu me, bhante, therā svātanāya bhattan”ti.\nAdhivāsesuṁ kho therā bhikkhū tuṇhībhāvena.\nAtha kho citto gahapati therānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ adhivāsanaṁ viditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā there bhikkhū abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmi.\nAtha kho therā bhikkhū tassā rattiyā accayena pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya yena cittassa gahapatissa nivesanaṁ tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā paññatte āsane nisīdiṁsu.","en":"At one time several senior mendicants were staying near Macchikāsaṇḍa in the Wild Mango Grove.\nThen Citta the householder went up to them, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to them,\n“Sirs, would the senior monks please accept tomorrow’s meal from me?”\nThey consented with silence.\nThen, knowing that the senior mendicants had consented, Citta rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled them, keeping them on his right, before leaving.\nThen when the night had passed, the senior mendicants robed up in the morning and, taking their bowls and robes, went to Citta’s home, and sat down on the seats spread out."}},{"id":"sn41.3:2","sourceIds":["sn41.3:2.1","sn41.3:2.2","sn41.3:2.3","sn41.3:2.4","sn41.3:2.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho citto gahapati yena therā bhikkhū tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā there bhikkhū abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho citto gahapati āyasmantaṁ theraṁ etadavoca:\n“yā imā, bhante thera, anekavihitā diṭṭhiyo loke uppajjanti:\n‘sassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā, anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīranti vā, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā.\nYāni cimāni dvāsaṭṭhi diṭṭhigatāni brahmajāle bhaṇitāni;\nimā nu kho, bhante, diṭṭhiyo kismiṁ sati honti, kismiṁ asati na hontī”ti?","en":"So he went up to them, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to the senior venerable:\n“Honorable Senior, there are many different views that arise in the world. For example:\nthe cosmos is eternal, or not eternal, or finite, or infinite; the soul and the body are one and the same, or the soul is one thing, the body another; after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.\nAnd also the sixty-two misconceptions spoken of in ‘The Divine Net’.\nWhen what exists do these views come to be? When what doesn’t exist do these views not come to be?”"}},{"id":"sn41.3:3","sourceIds":["sn41.3:3.1","sn41.3:3.2","sn41.3:3.3","sn41.3:3.4","sn41.3:3.5","sn41.3:3.6","sn41.3:3.7","sn41.3:3.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā thero tuṇhī ahosi.\nDutiyampi kho citto gahapati …pe…\ntatiyampi kho citto gahapati āyasmantaṁ theraṁ etadavoca:\n“yā imā, bhante thera, anekavihitā diṭṭhiyo loke uppajjanti—\nsassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā, anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīranti vā, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā.\nYāni cimāni dvāsaṭṭhi diṭṭhigatāni brahmajāle bhaṇitāni;\nimā nu kho, bhante, diṭṭhiyo kismiṁ sati honti, kismiṁ asati na hontī”ti?\nTatiyampi kho āyasmā thero tuṇhī ahosi.","en":"When he said this, the senior venerable kept silent.\nFor a second time …\nAnd for a third time, Citta said to him:\n“Honorable Senior, there are many different views that arise in the world. …\nWhen what exists do these views come to be? When what doesn’t exist do these views not come to be?”\nAnd a second time and a third time the senior venerable kept silent."}},{"id":"sn41.3:4","sourceIds":["sn41.3:4.1","sn41.3:4.2","sn41.3:4.3","sn41.3:4.4","sn41.3:4.5","sn41.3:4.6","sn41.3:4.7","sn41.3:4.8","sn41.3:4.9","sn41.3:4.10","sn41.3:4.11","sn41.3:4.12","sn41.3:4.13"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Tena kho pana samayena āyasmā isidatto tasmiṁ bhikkhusaṅghe sabbanavako hoti.\nAtha kho āyasmā isidatto āyasmantaṁ theraṁ etadavoca:\n“byākaromahaṁ, bhante thera, cittassa gahapatino etaṁ pañhan”ti?\n“Byākarohi tvaṁ, āvuso isidatta, cittassa gahapatino etaṁ pañhan”ti.\n“Evañhi tvaṁ, gahapati, pucchasi:\n‘yā imā, bhante thera, anekavihitā diṭṭhiyo loke uppajjanti—\nsassato lokoti vā …pe…;\nimā nu kho, bhante, diṭṭhiyo kismiṁ sati honti, kismiṁ asati na hontī’”ti?\n“Evaṁ, bhante”.\n“Yā imā, gahapati, anekavihitā diṭṭhiyo loke uppajjanti:\n‘sassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīranti vā, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā.\nYāni cimāni dvāsaṭṭhi diṭṭhigatāni brahmajāle bhaṇitāni;\nimā kho, gahapati, diṭṭhiyo sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā sati honti, sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā asati na hontī’”ti.","en":"Now at that time Venerable Isidatta was the most junior mendicant in that Saṅgha.\nHe said to the senior venerable,\n“Honorable Senior, may I answer Citta’s question?”\n“Answer it, Reverend Isidatta.”\n“Householder, is this your question:\n‘There are many different views that arise in the world …\nWhen what exists do these views come to be? When what doesn’t exist do these views not come to be?’”\n“Yes, sir.”\n“Householder, there are many different views that arise in the world. For example:\nthe cosmos is eternal, or not eternal, or finite, or infinite; the soul and the body are one and the same, or the soul is one thing, the body another; after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.\nAnd also the sixty-two misconceptions spoken of in ‘The Divine Net’.\nThese views come to be when substantialist view exists. When substantialist view does not exist they do not come to be.”"}},{"id":"sn41.3:5","sourceIds":["sn41.3:5.1","sn41.3:5.2","sn41.3:5.3","sn41.3:5.4","sn41.3:5.5","sn41.3:5.6","sn41.3:5.7","sn41.3:5.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kathaṁ pana, bhante, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī”ti?\n“Idha, gahapati, assutavā puthujjano ariyānaṁ adassāvī ariyadhammassa akovido ariyadhamme avinīto, sappurisānaṁ adassāvī sappurisadhammassa akovido sappurisadhamme avinīto\nrūpaṁ attato samanupassati, rūpavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, attani vā rūpaṁ, rūpasmiṁ vā attānaṁ;\nvedanaṁ attato samanupassati …pe…\nsaññaṁ …\nsaṅkhāre …\nviññāṇaṁ attato samanupassati, viññāṇavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, attani vā viññāṇaṁ, viññāṇasmiṁ vā attānaṁ.\nEvaṁ kho, gahapati, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī”ti.","en":"“But sir, how does substantialist view come about?”\n“It’s when an unlearned ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve not seen true persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the true persons.\nThey regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.\nThey regard feeling …\nperception …\nchoices …\nconsciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness.\nThat’s how substantialist view comes about.”"}},{"id":"sn41.3:6","sourceIds":["sn41.3:6.1","sn41.3:6.2","sn41.3:6.3","sn41.3:6.4","sn41.3:6.5","sn41.3:6.6","sn41.3:6.7","sn41.3:6.8"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kathaṁ pana, bhante, sakkāyadiṭṭhi na hotī”ti?\n“Idha, gahapati, sutavā ariyasāvako ariyānaṁ dassāvī ariyadhammassa kovido ariyadhamme suvinīto sappurisānaṁ dassāvī sappurisadhammassa kovido sappurisadhamme suvinīto\nna rūpaṁ attato samanupassati, na rūpavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, na attani vā rūpaṁ, na rūpasmiṁ vā attānaṁ;\nna vedanaṁ …\nna saññaṁ …\nna saṅkhāre …\nna viññāṇaṁ attato samanupassati, na viññāṇavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, na attani vā viññāṇaṁ, na viññāṇasmiṁ vā attānaṁ.\nEvaṁ kho, gahapati, sakkāyadiṭṭhi na hotī”ti.","en":"“But sir, how does substantialist view not come about?”\n“It’s when a learned noble disciple has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve seen true persons, and are skilled and trained in the teaching of the true persons.\nThey don’t regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form.\nThey don’t regard feeling …\nperception …\nchoices …\nconsciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness.\nThat’s how substantialist view does not come about.”"}},{"id":"sn41.3:7","sourceIds":["sn41.3:7.1","sn41.3:7.2","sn41.3:7.3","sn41.3:7.4","sn41.3:7.5","sn41.3:7.6","sn41.3:7.7","sn41.3:7.8","sn41.3:7.9","sn41.3:7.10","sn41.3:7.11","sn41.3:7.12","sn41.3:7.13"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kuto, bhante, ayyo isidatto āgacchatī”ti?\n“Avantiyā kho, gahapati, āgacchāmī”ti.\n“Atthi, bhante, avantiyā isidatto nāma kulaputto amhākaṁ adiṭṭhasahāyo pabbajito?\nDiṭṭho so āyasmatā”ti?\n“Evaṁ, gahapatī”ti.\n“Kahaṁ nu kho so, bhante, āyasmā etarahi viharatī”ti?\nEvaṁ vutte, āyasmā isidatto tuṇhī ahosi.\n“Ayyo no, bhante, isidatto”ti?\n“Evaṁ, gahapatī”ti.\n“Abhiramatu, bhante, ayyo isidatto macchikāsaṇḍe.\nRamaṇīyaṁ ambāṭakavanaṁ.\nAhaṁ ayyassa isidattassa ussukkaṁ karissāmi cīvarapiṇḍapātasenāsanagilānappaccayabhesajjaparikkhārānan”ti.\n“Kalyāṇaṁ vuccati, gahapatī”ti.","en":"“Sir, where has Master Isidatta come from?”\n“I come from Avanti, householder.”\n“Sir, there’s a friend of mine named Isidatta who I’ve never met. He’s gone forth from a good family in Avanti.\nHave you met him?”\n“Yes, householder.”\n“Sir, where is that venerable now staying?”\nWhen he said this, Isidatta kept silent.\n“Sir, are you that Isidatta?”\n“Yes, householder.”\n“Sir, I hope Master Isidatta is happy here in Macchikāsaṇḍa,\nfor the Wild Mango Grove is lovely.\nI’ll make sure that Master Isidatta is provided with robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.”\n“That’s nice of you to say, householder.”"}},{"id":"sn41.3:8","sourceIds":["sn41.3:8.1","sn41.3:8.2","sn41.3:8.3","sn41.3:8.4","sn41.3:8.5","sn41.3:8.6","sn41.3:8.7","sn41.3:8.8","sn41.3:8.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Atha kho citto gahapati āyasmato isidattassa bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā there bhikkhū paṇītena khādanīyena bhojanīyena sahatthā santappesi sampavāresi.\nAtha kho therā bhikkhū bhuttāvino onītapattapāṇino uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu.\nAtha kho āyasmā thero āyasmantaṁ isidattaṁ etadavoca:\n“sādhu kho taṁ, āvuso isidatta, eso pañho paṭibhāsi.\nNeso pañho maṁ paṭibhāsi.\nTenahāvuso isidatta, yadā aññathāpi evarūpo pañho āgaccheyya, taññevettha paṭibhāseyyā”ti.\nAtha kho āyasmā isidatto senāsanaṁ saṁsāmetvā pattacīvaramādāya macchikāsaṇḍamhā pakkāmi.\nYaṁ macchikāsaṇḍamhā pakkāmi, tathā pakkantova ahosi, na puna paccāgacchīti.\nTatiyaṁ.","en":"Then Citta, having approved and agreed with what Isidatta said, served and satisfied the senior mendicants with his own hands with delicious fresh and cooked foods.\nWhen the senior mendicants had eaten and washed their hands and bowls, they rose from their seats and left.\nThen the senior venerable said to Venerable Isidatta,\n“Isidatta, it’s good that you felt inspired to answer that question, because I didn’t.\nSo when a similar question comes up, you should also answer it as you feel inspired.”\nBut Isidatta set his lodgings in order and, taking his bowl and robe, left Macchikāsaṇḍa,\nnever to return."}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/sn41.3/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}